Brian Travis invaded by bureaucrats

[AntonLee]

do cows have feelings?  Maybe there are those with more than the two mindsets you mentioned.  It's pretty easy to lump people into groups and pretend they're not individuals.  I hold people at what they say.

[Russell Kanning]

   Can a property owner in Grafton raise goats / sheep / chickens ?

yes ... but the nhspca could be called in at any moment

[Lloyd Danforth]

   Can a property owner in Grafton raise goats / sheep / chickens ?

Yes.  Just not certain plants.

Apparently

[CJS]

   Can a property owner in Grafton raise goats / sheep / chickens ?

yes ... but the nhspca could be called in at any moment

Well they better bring wine if they expect a seat at my dinner table . The animals I would raise may be cute ... they would be tasty .   

Any one here raise their own protein  ?

[jeremy2141]

Turkeys.  Is it ok to raise and kill turkeys because theyre uglier and dumber than horses or dogs?  I lived on the tiny island of Okinawa for a year and ate dog there.  They had dog farms.

[AntonLee]

I wonder if any of this is making any sense to anyone.

[MaineShark]

Some feel that animals should have some level of rights while others feel that animals are property and thus no different then say a table.

You can't have "some level of rights," other than all rights.  Rights stem from self-ownership.  People own themselves, and have absolutely every right that results therefrom.  Property has no self-ownership and, therefore, no rights.

For a given creature to have any rights, it must have all rights; rights an all-or-nothing sort of deal.

Joe

[lildog]

For a given creature to have any rights, it must have all rights; rights an all-or-nothing sort of deal.

There are people in PETA who believe animals should have the same rights as people and don't even feel owning a pet is acceptable.

[MaineShark]

For a given creature to have any rights, it must have all rights; rights an all-or-nothing sort of deal.

There are people in PETA who believe animals should have the same rights as people and don't even feel owning a pet is acceptable.

No, you can't have "the same rights as people," implying that the given creature is not a person, but still has rights.

People have rights.  Anything not a person does not have any rights at all.

It's possible that some dolphin or ape out there has crossed the line into being a person, rather than an animal.  If so, then that creature is a person, and has all the rights commensurate with such.

Joe

[dalebert]

Rights have to be reciprocal. That's the whole point of them. You invalidate your own rights to the extent that you disrespect the rights of others. Animals, with potential for very rare exceptions, are incapable of respecting rights or even understanding the concept and therefore they don't have rights.

[KBCraig]

It's possible that some dolphin or ape out there has crossed the line into being a person, rather than an animal.  If so, then that creature is a person, and has all the rights commensurate with such.

El Neil discussed that in "The Probability Broach".

[grolled]

Rights have to be reciprocal. That's the whole point of them. You invalidate your own rights to the extent that you disrespect the rights of others. Animals, with potential for very rare exceptions, are incapable of respecting rights or even understanding the concept and therefore they don't have rights.

(bolding added)

What about the mentally incompetent? Do they not have any rights since they are incapable of understanding the concept? Do they have the right to life or can we kill them like we kill animals?

[AntonLee]

Has a retarded person ever claimed not to understand?

[dalebert]

Most retarded people I've ever known seemed to have a pretty good grasp of the idea of respecting others and their property. They have rights to the extent they respect the rights of others. If someone is coming at you with a bloody knife, it would not be unreasonable to violently defend yourself (your rights). If they're retarded, that doesn't change the situation. If animals began to show the capacity to understand rights like in The Probability Broach, it would make sense to start respecting their rights. If a retarded person repeatedly demonstrates that they can't be trusted to respect rights, then whoever cares for that person whether it be family, friends, or charitable organizations, should be exercising some effort to protect people from them so that they don't end up hurt in some justified act of self defense. I feel the same way about criminals, people who violate rights and do have the capacity to understand rights.

[AntonLee]

Most retarded people I've ever known seemed to have a pretty good grasp of the idea of respecting others and their property. They have rights to the extent they respect the rights of others. If someone is coming at you with a bloody knife, it would not be unreasonable to violently defend yourself (your rights). If they're retarded, that doesn't change the situation. If animals began to show the capacity to understand rights like in The Probability Broach, it would make sense to start respecting their rights. If a retarded person repeatedly demonstrates that they can't be trusted to respect rights, then whoever cares for that person whether it be family, friends, or charitable organizations, should be exercising some effort to protect people from them so that they don't end up hurt in some justified act of self defense. I feel the same way about criminals, people who violate rights and do have the capacity to understand rights.

well said.