9-11 was an inside job

[Insurgent]

Webster Tarpley, as mentioned below, is probably one of the best to weave together what is known surrounding 9-11 into the most likely scenario. The book will be $15 at the event.

That's the other problem I have with many of the people coming up with these theories, they use them to sell books etc.

Yeah, darn free market! Ya know, if someone does a lot of research and spends a lot of money on his academic training and has some knowledge to impart to other people, we shouldn't let him crassly commercialize on that and make money off us poor saps - why, that would be exploitation! If we could only control which people could write and publish books, we could stop all this foolish nonsense! Yeah, these pesky "theory people" - they're causing a lot of problems for us people who already know the real truth! 

lol pwned!!!

[lildog]

Webster Tarpley, as mentioned below, is probably one of the best to weave together what is known surrounding 9-11 into the most likely scenario. The book will be $15 at the event.

That's the other problem I have with many of the people coming up with these theories, they use them to sell books etc.

Yeah, darn free market! Ya know, if someone does a lot of research and spends a lot of money on his academic training and has some knowledge to impart to other people, we shouldn't let him crassly commercialize on that and make money off us poor saps - why, that would be exploitation! If we could only control which people could write and publish books, we could stop all this foolish nonsense! Yeah, these pesky "theory people" - they're causing a lot of problems for us people who already know the real truth! 

See that's just it, you uncover evidence of the crime of the century and instead of trying to start a revolution against a government willing to kill its own people the first thing these people do is look for book deals.

Maybe it's just me but if I seriously though the government was killing people I wouldn't be sitting back writing books about it.

[JonM]

Oh the government is definately killing people.  The Drug War can account for a ton of that all on its own.

[lildog]

Oh the government is definately killing people.  The Drug War can account for a ton of that all on its own.

You raise an interesting philosophical question here.  Is the out right murder of thousands of innocent people the same as creating victimless crime laws which lead to countless deaths?

[error]

I think that issue was addressed at the Nuremberg trials.

[MaineShark]

That's the other problem I have with many of the people coming up with these theories, they use them to sell books etc.

Yeah, darn free market! Ya know, if someone does a lot of research and spends a lot of money on his academic training and has some knowledge to impart to other people, we shouldn't let him crassly commercialize on that and make money off us poor saps - why, that would be exploitation! If we could only control which people could write and publish books, we could stop all this foolish nonsense! Yeah, these pesky "theory people" - they're causing a lot of problems for us people who already know the real truth! 

I'm going to back lildog up on this one.  It's not that they can't sell the story, but it's a matter of credibility.

I don't take what a used-car salesman says without a grain of salt.  He has a vested interest in selling me a car.  I have to weigh the likelyhood that he will misrepresent things against the likelyhood that he will avoid doing so in order to protect his good name.  If he works for a well-established company that has a reputation at stake, he may be less likely to risk lying to me just to make a sale (or sell at a higher price).

Similarly, if someone asks me to quote a new heating system, he has to understand that my reputation is at stake, and that is why he should trust what I tell him.  But I still don't expect someone to just blindly believe what I say, without doing any research of his own.  I don't blidnly trust manufacturers of equipment, either (eg, one of the reasons I deal with Greenwod Boilers for wood boilers is because they have an extensive listing of their competitors with links to websites and everything, right on their own page; they are the best I've seen, and they know it and aren't afraid of a little competition).

What interests do the folks selling conspiracy theories in books have?  Selling conspiracy theories in books.  If they don't do that, they don't get paid.  I can't see that the authors of these books have any risk if they tell outright lies on every single page.

Oh the government is definately killing people.  The Drug War can account for a ton of that all on its own.

You raise an interesting philosophical question here.  Is the out right murder of thousands of innocent people the same as creating victimless crime laws which lead to countless deaths?

Yes.  Absolutely and unequivocally.  Anything else would be like someone eating meat, but opposing the killing of animals.

Joe

[Insurgent]

(posted from the Improbable Collapse thread)

Wow, what a great day! About a dozen people turned out for the lunch meeting and good discussion was had. The Grand Buffet is a good place to have a meeting, too. I think it would seat around 40 people, and the food isn't bad either.

About 26 people turned out for the film showing, which packed the meeting room at the Best Western. A good mix of people were there; seven porcupines, some students from the Student Scholars for 9/11 Truth http://www.sst911.org four people from NHPeaceAction and even a guy from off the street.

Reception to the film was great, as it should be. The arguments in it are airtight and it's as credible as can be. Afterwards the film make, Michael Berger, had us on the edge of or seats as he spoke on a number of topics, including: how the three towers collapsed on 9/11, the financial gains that occurred from the record put options just before 9/11, Deep Politics, Peak Oil, the CIA and illegal drug money, the impossible cell-phone calls on 9/11 and much more.

The man is just a wealth of information; he spoke for over an hour, citing dates and people's name without even referring to any notes. He has dedicated the last three years of his life researching all of this and making the film, cashing in his life savings to make the film. We owe him a great debt of gratitude.

Again, his website for the film is http://improbablecollapse.com watch the trailer and see for yourself. There are still a couple more screenings of the film where he will be appearing and dates and times are listed there as well. I encourage everyone to make it to one; you won't be disappointed!

[jaqeboy]

That's the other problem I have with many of the people coming up with these theories, they use them to sell books etc.

Yeah, darn free market!...these pesky "theory people" - they're causing a lot of problems for us people who already know the real truth! 

I'm going to back lildog up on this one.
...
Joe

I'm going to have to say that I guess my point was lost.

Happy to report though that the events on the "Improbable Collapse" tour with Michael Berger went well today. Good turn out at both the luncheon in Manchester and at the video showing in Concord - 1/4 of the attendees at the showing were Porcs, so the coalitioning strategy is working well and we're overlapping our networks with others to spread our influence in the greater community, including the colleges, through our hook-up with Student Scholars for 9/11 Truth: sst911.org. Student Scholars are the ones bringing Wm. Rodriquez to Franklin Peirce College on 18 May. They also have an article about their meeting with Ron Paul on their site here: http://sst911.org/articles/candidateskucinichandpaul.html.

There are still a few chances to catch Michael Berger on his Northeast "Improbable Collapse" tour:
19Apr-Friends Meeting House, Dover, N.H.
21Apr-Democracy Center, Cambridge, Mass. (a carload of Porcs are going down to this - could arrange a meeting place for any carpooler interest, or caravanning if there'll be more than 1 car)
22Apr-Wilton, N.H. (Route 101 is still blocked, but traffic is diverted down Main Street in Wilton, right past the Town Hall Theater where the showing will be)
23Apr-Hampshire College, Amherst, Mass.
(full tour schedule details at http://flybynews.com/ or http://911truth.org/ or http://improbablecollapse.com/)

Lot's of good info out there for those who are curious. MV911T acquired more materials, including some more copies of the Tarpley book, Synthetic Terror mentioned below. Be sure to join the MeetUp group accessible through MerrimackValley911Truth.org to get further announcements of events in the area.

[lildog]

Oh the government is definately killing people.  The Drug War can account for a ton of that all on its own.

You raise an interesting philosophical question here.  Is the out right murder of thousands of innocent people the same as creating victimless crime laws which lead to countless deaths?

Yes.  Absolutely and unequivocally.  Anything else would be like someone eating meat, but opposing the killing of animals.

I'm not a big fan of victimless crimes here but let me play the devils advocate on this one for a moment.

Don't you think intention has a lot to do with it?  After all in the case of 9-11 regardless of who you think actually pulled it off the intent was to murder.  That was the goal.

In the case of drug laws, the intent is to save lives.  Now we know in reality it doesn't but I would say this would be more like someone trying to disarm a bomb in the middle of a room full of people and having it go off early by mistake.  If you just left the bomb alone the people most likely could have left the room in time to be ok.

[MaineShark]

Don't you think intention has a lot to do with it?  After all in the case of 9-11 regardless of who you think actually pulled it off the intent was to murder.  That was the goal.

In the case of drug laws, the intent is to save lives.  Now we know in reality it doesn't but I would say this would be more like someone trying to disarm a bomb in the middle of a room full of people and having it go off early by mistake.  If you just left the bomb alone the people most likely could have left the room in time to be ok.

The intent of the Drug War is to destroy the last vestiges of the Bill of Rights and to raise the level of violence on the streets in order to justify a larger police presence.  That is it.  The people who push these laws have no interest in saving lives.  Drops in crime rates give them ulcers.  They want high crime and the ability to suspend the last restrictions that exist on the power of government.

There was no "drug problem" before they started prohibition.  You could buy drugs at any pharmacy, without a prescription.  Just walk in and ask for some heroin, cocaine, etc.  The original laws were passed to target immigrants who used different drugs than the White majority, because the politicians knew they could get those laws to pass by claiming that marijuana makes Mexicans violent, and similar nonsense.  The majority didn't much care for the rights of immigrants at that time, and they didn't know the drugs that the immigrants were using, so they couldn't refute the claims.  The laws gradually encroached onto other things.

The purpose of the drug war is no different than the purpose of the September 11th attcks (regardless of who perpetrated them): to use violence against civilians in order to instill fear in people as a political tool.

Joe

[lildog]

Maineshark, I think you give the government far too much credit.  I don't think the government as a whole is that smart in the least.

[MaineShark]

Maineshark, I think you give the government far too much credit.  I don't think the government as a whole is that smart in the least.

We're not talking anything complex.  And the evidence is all there, for anyone who bothers to look.  This isn't some big secret.

Joe

[Insurgent]

Don't you think intention has a lot to do with it?  After all in the case of 9-11 regardless of who you think actually pulled it off the intent was to murder.  That was the goal.

In the case of drug laws, the intent is to save lives.  Now we know in reality it doesn't but I would say this would be more like someone trying to disarm a bomb in the middle of a room full of people and having it go off early by mistake.  If you just left the bomb alone the people most likely could have left the room in time to be ok.

The intent of the Drug War is to destroy the last vestiges of the Bill of Rights and to raise the level of violence on the streets in order to justify a larger police presence.  That is it.  The people who push these laws have no interest in saving lives.  Drops in crime rates give them ulcers.  They want high crime and the ability to suspend the last restrictions that exist on the power of government.

There was no "drug problem" before they started prohibition.  You could buy drugs at any pharmacy, without a prescription.  Just walk in and ask for some heroin, cocaine, etc.  The original laws were passed to target immigrants who used different drugs than the White majority, because the politicians knew they could get those laws to pass by claiming that marijuana makes Mexicans violent, and similar nonsense.  The majority didn't much care for the rights of immigrants at that time, and they didn't know the drugs that the immigrants were using, so they couldn't refute the claims.  The laws gradually encroached onto other things.

The purpose of the drug war is no different than the purpose of the September 11th attcks (regardless of who perpetrated them): to use violence against civilians in order to instill fear in people as a political tool.

Joe

Heh--this is what the Libertarian Party has taught us what is behind the war on drugs. That is surface politics, what is easily seen and discernable. Not that it isn't true, but it doesn't begin to scratch the surface.

One of the points that I tried to make earlier is how this is all ties together. Without going in to lengthy dissertations here, I would encourage interested people to make the time and watch this stunning speech in order to connect the dots:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8797525979024486145&q=michael+ruppert

[jaqeboy]

There will be a caravan/carpool down to the Saturday night, Cambridge showing of Improbable Collapse, with a mini tour of Cambridge (OK, one eatery featured in Good Will Hunting).

We could do a more thorough tour of Cambridge if people wanted to leave more like noon-time, rather than the scheduled 4:45PM departure. It's a very cool place, especially in springtime with all the buskers around Harvard Square, where Bob Dylan and other notables used to perform for change.

Details at the thread about the movie: http://forum.soulawakenings.com/index.php?topic=7647.0

[mvpel]

We're not talking anything complex.  And the evidence is all there, for anyone who bothers to look.  This isn't some big secret.

I think I'm still waiting for someone to post one of those easily-verifiable facts that they say I'm ignoring.