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Author Topic: Family Framework  (Read 1800 times)

BillKauffman

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Re: Family Framework
« Reply #15 on: March 25, 2009, 10:26 PM NHFT »

Quote
Anything else can be used by who ever needs it when (just consulting with the other person first to make sure you don't mess her up.)

That is best described as common not mutual property. Free to use so long as you do not infringe on the others equal right to the same. Checking prior to use is just common courtesy...
Quote
Our rule is:  I have to put her first and she has to put me first.

You've got to give to get...


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sonio

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Re: Family Framework
« Reply #16 on: March 25, 2009, 10:47 PM NHFT »

Quote
Anything else can be used by who ever needs it when (just consulting with the other person first to make sure you don't mess her up.)

That is best described as common not mutual property. Free to use so long as you do not infringe on the others equal right to the same. Checking prior to use is just common courtesy...
Quote
Our rule is:  I have to put her first and she has to put me first.

You've got to give to get...




I don't know the sub-text to common or mutual property.  Only what seems to make the most sense to two people who like to deal in reason.  :)

Yes, you must always give to get.
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Pat McCotter

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Re: Family Framework
« Reply #17 on: March 26, 2009, 03:21 AM NHFT »

Unlike my first marriage Gloria and I have never had a conflict. There are no rules. There is no questioning if something is right or not. When something needs to be done it happens and everything is fine. If I see something that needs doing I do it.

When I was in the hospital I tried to make sure I was always upbeat (didn't always work) because I knew Gloria was terrified I would die. I thanked her for the driving between Concord and Boston she did during that time. I also made sure I thanked the porcs who helped her out during that time.

When Gloria makes a special dish for me I thank her. She has thanked me profusely for having coffee made when she wakes up and I have made sure since then that the coffee is ready for her in the morning.

Thanking people for the things they do is a great way to ensure the practice is repeated. Reciprocation in the same way is not always possible, or sometimes even desired, but showing gratitude in some way is key.

I always tell Gloria I love her. This comes from a lesson I learned from my grandparents - and was fortunately able to practice with them - that before you go anywhere away from your loved ones - even if it is out to the mailbox - you tell them you love them, because that may be the last time you see them. I taught this to my boys, telling them that there was no such thing as saying "I love you" too much.

« Last Edit: March 26, 2009, 03:42 AM NHFT by Pat McCotter »
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toowm

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Re: Family Framework
« Reply #18 on: March 26, 2009, 10:10 AM NHFT »

Spousal property is completely held in common. We married young and have no problem acting as one.

Everyone has a right to life, liberty, and property. Kids too. I am appalled by "libertarians" who actually debate whether kids are property. Instead, I view parenthood as stewardship between a newborn that needs you 100% and a functional adult with all rights and responsibilities, with their right to liberty being asserted over time.

So, growing up is a chance to take on responsibility when the consequences are muted. The kids don't own their rooms but they do own various possessions from gifts or that were purchased from allowance. We have not forced the kids to share what they own with each other, even when it would be easier to force them.

We do have a contract with one son that he will replace our couch as an adult after jumping into it too many times!
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sandm000

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Re: Family Framework
« Reply #19 on: March 26, 2009, 10:36 AM NHFT »

Thanks sandm000, that was very helpful.

Do both you and your spouse work? Or does one of you stay home with kids?
I go out to work and my wife stays home with the boys

Quote
Is there a head of house? If so, how was this decided?
I'm not aware of a literal head of house, which means that either I am not it, or it isn't that important.

Quote
If no explicit head of house, how do you make important decisions that have to be decided on right this minute but you can't agree on how to go about it?
I would need a specific example of a "right this minute" situation. Budget limitations make a lot of the decisions for us.

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sandm000

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Re: Family Framework
« Reply #20 on: March 26, 2009, 10:45 AM NHFT »

Everyone has a right to life, liberty, and property. Kids too. I am appalled by "libertarians" who actually debate whether kids are property. Instead, I view parenthood as stewardship between a newborn that needs you 100% and a functional adult with all rights and responsibilities, with their right to liberty being asserted over time.

So, growing up is a chance to take on responsibility when the consequences are muted.

How can children be anything but property viz. chattel? They are not born as thinking reasoning beings. They are completely dependent on you for sustenance for ~9 months after birth, in that you have to feed them, because they lack the physical ability to feed themselves. So they could not operate independently of you for, at the least, that time.

All claim of ownership dissolves once the child proves they are a rational person.
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BillKauffman

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Re: Family Framework
« Reply #21 on: March 26, 2009, 11:13 AM NHFT »

Unlike my first marriage Gloria and I have never had a conflict. There are no rules. There is no questioning if something is right or not. When something needs to be done it happens and everything is fine. If I see something that needs doing I do it.

When I was in the hospital I tried to make sure I was always upbeat (didn't always work) because I knew Gloria was terrified I would die. I thanked her for the driving between Concord and Boston she did during that time. I also made sure I thanked the porcs who helped her out during that time.

When Gloria makes a special dish for me I thank her. She has thanked me profusely for having coffee made when she wakes up and I have made sure since then that the coffee is ready for her in the morning.

Thanking people for the things they do is a great way to ensure the practice is repeated. Reciprocation in the same way is not always possible, or sometimes even desired, but showing gratitude in some way is key.

I always tell Gloria I love her. This comes from a lesson I learned from my grandparents - and was fortunately able to practice with them - that before you go anywhere away from your loved ones - even if it is out to the mailbox - you tell them you love them, because that may be the last time you see them. I taught this to my boys, telling them that there was no such thing as saying "I love you" too much.



I think a relationship works best when the two people are "givers" and not "takers" or one "giver" and one "taker".

"Givers" are constantly thinking that the other person is giving more and they therefore want to do their part to give back. "Givers" give because it makes them feel good to do for others. The receiver is then also the beneficiary of this feeling. This is a little bit of trickery!

When my partner does something for me - like you Pat - I thank her profusely because in someways I am surprised and feel a little "unworthy"...no matter how small the effort.

To sum it up - I am so very grateful when someone makes an effort to take the "little troubles" out of my life by giving to me that I want to reciprocate.
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BillKauffman

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Re: Family Framework
« Reply #22 on: March 26, 2009, 11:17 AM NHFT »

Spousal property is completely held in common. We married young and have no problem acting as one.

Everyone has a right to life, liberty, and property. Kids too. I am appalled by "libertarians" who actually debate whether kids are property. Instead, I view parenthood as stewardship between a newborn that needs you 100% and a functional adult with all rights and responsibilities, with their right to liberty being asserted over time.

So, growing up is a chance to take on responsibility when the consequences are muted. The kids don't own their rooms but they do own various possessions from gifts or that were purchased from allowance. We have not forced the kids to share what they own with each other, even when it would be easier to force them.

We do have a contract with one son that he will replace our couch as an adult after jumping into it too many times!

Actually legal "spousal property" is held jointly not in common. Some people treat it as common property.

The difference is that prior to using joint property you must get positive affirmation from the other owner.
In common property you don't have to ask for permission but you just can't infringe on their equal right use...this is usually accomplished - as a social convention - by just checking to see if the other person had any plans to use it while you want to (as sonio described).
« Last Edit: March 26, 2009, 11:19 AM NHFT by BillKauffman »
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