Census Civil Disobedience

[violence]

vexer prob has a summer job doing this and is offended

[bigmike]

Mike, that's as serious and well-intended response as ever I've gotten.


You said people talk about freedom and democracy and, at the same time, hate it.

But they seem to agree to dis-own "democracy?



...talk about wanting freedom without truly understanding the meaning of the word... 

Honestly, I am trying to understand what you think this means.


I don't vote because I don't know where I would get the moral authority to force my views on others.

Mike, explain how anarchy could work?

1- That's because democracy isn't freedom. If 50% of the population plus one person have an opinion that everyone should do such and such, they're forcing me to comply with their opinion. You may say it's the law, but laws are merely opinions backed by forced. Free people should be able to do whatever they want as long as there actions don't harm other people.

2- I define freedom as the ability to go about my business without being threatened or forced to do or pay for what someone else may think is a good idea. Again, if my actions don't hurt you, what do you care? I'd like to think that I own me. Who owns you?

3- I think you mistakenly view a world of anarchy as people running around raping, pillaging and killing others. You'll find a lot of anarchists post on this forum, including myself, and we're peaceful people. The very nature of the word government takes meaning from the word control. Where does the authority to control another human being come from? If you believe in God, he doesn't grant you the ability to control others. If you believe in the Constitution, it doesn't give you the authority to control others but it does grant you the ability to choose who controls others. If you can't control others, how can you pick someone to do it for you? Control comes through violence, either by threat or directly. As an anarchist I simply feel I should be able to conduct business voluntarily, which is why I prefer the term voluntaryist over anarchist. If you believe a voluntary society could never work, I'd simply ask you to tell me what happened the last time we gave it a try.

Back to the census...If you think it's worthy of your time go ahead and fill it out. I don't and I won't. But should I be fined for not answering it? If I don't pay the fine, should I have to go to jail? Do you see how easy it is for the government to turn nice people like me into criminals for trying to mind their own business? The reason most people comply is because they're scared, scared of the violence that may happen to them at the hands of the government. Only when people stop being scared will we be able to make a stand for true freedom.

[cathleeninnh]

I am still wondering what RIS is.

[CJS]

I am still wondering what RIS is.

Maybe this ?

http://www.monitoringris.org/skel.php?id=58

[vexer]

I know about my name.

"How about it is none of the federal governments  business?"

Well, you didn't understand my previous post.

"Have you even read the questionnaire ?"

Actually no. But they ask the same things here.


"The questions are positively ridiculous and beyond invasive ... what time I leave my home for work ?? they can F*** of."

That makes you feel tough.  That's good. I understand that this is a large part of  what this site is about that.

But it's actually probably because you're too dumb to see the administrative value they can get out of the questions. And hence the tax dollars they can save you.

But when you look for a bus at "what time I leave my home for work" and their won't be one  - it's cause you wrote on large crayon " I Don't Understand The NationWide Importance of This".


Painful? They're smarter than you.

[vexer]

Mike, just to give you a laugh, in my country: you get fined for not voting.

You seem  reasonable, and I look forward to a thread on "anarchy". I've read all that you've written. Right now, I'm waiting to hear:

That's because democracy isn't freedom.... etc. I think I agree. But then I've often (here) asked question is: if not "Democracy",  then what?

No one has answered.

[Pat McCotter]

if not "Democracy",  then what?

Try reading Market for Liberty for an introduction to an alternative to government.  (This is not a plan to implement, just an alternative.)

Download a PDF to read or sound file to hear it being read by Ian Freeman.
http://book.freekeene.com/

[John Edward Mercier]

I know about my name.

"How about it is none of the federal governments  business?"

Well, you didn't understand my previous post.

"Have you even read the questionnaire ?"

Actually no. But they ask the same things here.


"The questions are positively ridiculous and beyond invasive ... what time I leave my home for work ?? they can F*** of."

That makes you feel tough.  That's good. I understand that this is a large part of  what this site is about that.

But it's actually probably because you're too dumb to see the administrative value they can get out of the questions. And hence the tax dollars they can save you.

But when you look for a bus at "what time I leave my home for work" and their won't be one  - it's cause you wrote on large crayon " I Don't Understand The NationWide Importance of This".


Painful? They're smarter than you.

Most of NH doesn't have any format of public transportation... and definately nothing of nationwide importance. We find the census sort of ignorant in that much of the information, they already have... just no way to process it.

[CJS]

  Bus schedules are the responsibility of the bus companies or local government .... is it sinking in ?

VEXOR ... you don't understand , and I am sorry about that . The questions you feel have "importance" are my private business . The Federal Government has no right to demand this at threat of financial violence  ... its that simple . These questions are a "search" .. plain and simple and they tell me I ave no right to refuse them ? Well I am going to find out .

You think it makes me feel tough to say screw them ? It doesn't ..it makes me sad for those who don't see the loss of our freedom. As far as my being angry enough to spit ... well I am and I am not embarrassed about it , I wonder why every one else isn't .

If you think this particular site is about being tough your as blind as a bat , literally . This site is full of people who make no physical response to government aggression , they believe in NAP /ZAP and now I do also ... they know that no one wins a gang fight against the USA .

  Just for fun , since you see the usefulness of invasive questioning .. where do you live , what are you political beliefs and what did you have for supper ? 

Peace  .. hope you get it .

[FreelanceFreedomFighter]

if not "Democracy",  then what?

Try reading Market for Liberty for an introduction to an alternative to government.  (This is not a plan to implement, just an alternative.)

Download a PDF to read or sound file to hear it being read by Ian Freeman.
http://book.freekeene.com/

Or perhaps: Market Anarchy Explained: ''But Who Will Build The Roads?'' - Francois Tremblay

Or: Machinery of Freedom - David Friedman

[AntonLee]

the roads, the roads, the roads!?!?!  THE ROADS!!!!!!

WHO WILL BUILD THEM???  I'M SCARED MA!  WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THE GOVERNMENT GOES AWAY WHO WILL TAKE CARE OF THE ROADS?  MAD MAX BEYOND THUNDERDOME!!!  TWO MEN ENTER ONE MAN LEAVE!!!  I LIKE ROADS!  MY CAR CAN'T MANUVER ON PAVEMENT UNLESS THERE'S AN ENTITY THAT SAYS THEY'LL FIX THE PAVEMENT WITHIN 3-5 YEARS!!!

and as for the census

WHAT WILL I DO WHEN THERE IS NO GOVERNMENT TO ANSWER TO?  WHO WILL ASK THE QUESTIONS LIKE IF I PEE STANDING UP OR SITTING DOWN?

sorry for all the caps, this is the type of bs I hear at work from the ruhtards.

[John Edward Mercier]

I think you mention you liked to hunt?
Ask your co-workers who clears the deer paths in the winter?

I know its a little odd, but that is exactly how it was done prior to collective road maintenance.

[bigmike]

Mike, just to give you a laugh, in my country: you get fined for not voting.

You seem  reasonable, and I look forward to a thread on "anarchy". I've read all that you've written. Right now, I'm waiting to hear:

That's because democracy isn't freedom.... etc. I think I agree. But then I've often (here) asked question is: if not "Democracy",  then what?

No one has answered.

I've heard of compulsory voting in some countries and it's no laughing matter. People being penalized financially for opting to not taking part in the process of deciding who will control them and their neighbors is just as bad as being penalized for not taking part in giving information that assists in how they're controlled; the census.

People can choose to not participate and not pay the fine, however the enforcement of government fines can be tied into income taxes and the fine would likely be deducted from the person's "tax refund". Most people are too scared to stop filing tax returns for fear of arrest and imprisonment. Maybe it's time to stop being scared.

As far as a system other than democracy, I don't claim to have all the answers. I live through  self-governance and would prefer to see people fund "public needs" on a voluntary basis and not have to fear arrest for actions in their lives that don't harm others. That day is coming but we're not there yet.

[FreelanceFreedomFighter]

the roads, the roads, the roads!?!?!  THE ROADS!!!!!!

(snipped for brevity)

sorry for all the caps, this is the type of bs I hear at work from the ruhtards.

I get the same idiocy where I gain financial remuneration... (even tho they refuse to pay me in real money and will only provide FRNs... I said I would like my FRNs in ca$h payable in American Eagles which are legal tender and was told that they only write checks...  go figure...)

[Pat McCotter]

Vote! Get screwed!
http://www.votergasm.org/