Armed defense?

[Keyser Soce]

It'd be nice to know if the guy standing next to you at a party or rally or such is going to start shooting if the gov't starts confiscating guns.

I wouldn't be likely to put a sticker like that on my car and I'll let Claire Wolfe explain why:

America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards.

That was over a decade ago. However we may feel, I'm pretty sure that Boston and Claire would agree (with each other) that confiscation would be a sure sign that it was no longer too early.

[AntonLee]

I thought it was wrong to take things that didn't belong to you.

[Lloyd Danforth]

The big problem I see with the sticker is that I doubt more than .0001% of the population knows what it means.

[Sam A. Robrin]

The big problem I see with the sticker is that I doubt more than .0001% of the population knows what it means.

Nothing wrong with sending your readers to a dictionary or encyclopedia once in a while.

[AntonLee]

most people won't go.  I still think someone besides myself will interpret that as a request.  Requesting cops come to my house is not cool.

[Kat Kanning]

I went ahead and split the vinyl bumper sticker thread. 

I don't think Russell should make leetninja leave.

[leetninja]

I don't think Russell should make leetninja leave.

what?! make me leave!?

[Pat McCotter]

im really not sure where you are going with this ... i didnt say that i think your way of life is useless.  in the right circumstances it is great.  dont you get pushed too far at some point?

if someone decided to come to your home and just search and seize your belongings with the intent to take what they want how exactly would you non-violently not co-operate when that person pulls a gun and says "sit down and shut up or ill shut you up" and proceeds to take your money, firearms, etc?  Lets go with double scenario even ...

first person that does that is a Kop ... how do you non violently not cooperate with him?  how are you planning on preventing him from taking your belongings that he had no right to take to begin with?

the second is just a jackass that also decides to throw in raping your wife while you watch ... so really how do you remain non violent through something like that?  same questions as above plus the obvious add in question about him and your wife.

maybe if it hits closer to home you will think differently?

http://nhunderground.com/forum/index.php?topic=4640.0

[Bill St. Clair]

Russell and Kat are on record with their policy of complete non-violence towards thugs with guns if those thugs happen to be wearing government uniforms. So I mostly don't talk about that here.

But to answer Kat's question, if a thug with a gun came to my door, and demanded ANYTHING of me, especially that I turn over my guns, I would consider myself to be justified in shooting it, feeding its liver to my dogs, and burying or burning it in my yard. Whether or not it was wearing a fancy uniform, funny hat, and shiny badge.

As a practical matter, actually doing that, if the thug WERE wearing a badge, is not likely to work out well for me, given that the police are members of a large, well-organized, heavily-armed, and extremely vindictive gang, but I might decide to die fighting rather than live on my knees. And I have great respect for anyone else who makes that decision. I personally think that if the police start going door to door confiscating "illegal" guns, that it's going to go very badly for them. And for the legislators that authorized them to do it. I hope it never comes to that, because it will be ugly.

As for whether meeting home invasion with defensive violence would reflect poorly on the freedom movement, I doubt I would give it a thought at the time. The thugs will be at my door. The freedom movement will not.

The purpose of the Second Amendment is to make legislators, cops, and judges fear for their lives if they venture outside the narrow confines of their constitutional cage.

Mike Vanderboegh says it much better than I.

Having said that, I have great respect for all Russell and Kat do in an attempt to thwart the thugs without violence. Good luck to you.

III

[Pat McCotter]

im really not sure where you are going with this ... i didnt say that i think your way of life is useless.  in the right circumstances it is great.  dont you get pushed too far at some point?

if someone decided to come to your home and just search and seize your belongings with the intent to take what they want how exactly would you non-violently not co-operate when that person pulls a gun and says "sit down and shut up or ill shut you up" and proceeds to take your money, firearms, etc?  Lets go with double scenario even ...

first person that does that is a Kop ... how do you non violently not cooperate with him?  how are you planning on preventing him from taking your belongings that he had no right to take to begin with?

the second is just a jackass that also decides to throw in raping your wife while you watch ... so really how do you remain non violent through something like that?  same questions as above plus the obvious add in question about him and your wife.

maybe if it hits closer to home you will think differently?

http://nhunderground.com/forum/index.php?topic=4640.0

http://nhunderground.com/forum/index.php?topic=4584.0

[leetninja]

like i said there are scenarios where noncompliance and non cooperation are wonderful tools.  especially in a victimless crime circumstance i.e. handing out flyers.

what i am trying to say pretty much the scenario where the rights of many are violated.  such as "By May first all firearms must be turned in to yur local PD"

The non violent non cooperation would work at first but what happens when they start sending their people to our homes? 

isnt this what our forefathers meant by the right to keep and bear arms, and armed militia?

Would you all just hand them in? or would you stand up and be willing to sacrifice if necessary?

Personally if a scenario like this arose i would not be willing to give up my firearms.  i would not unlock my safe or hand anything to them.  I would be willing to die for the same things that my forefathers were willing to die for so many years ago.

I am still confused about the comment about Russel making me leave ... someone want to explain that?

[Tom Sawyer]

Just to weigh in with my 2 cents.

First off the assumption that non-violent resistance is only for pacifists is in error.
Check out some of the resources on this thread
REVOLUTION, Ya Say Ya Want A

As others have already mentioned, violence only grows the power of the government.

Many seem to have the fantasy view of jackboots going door to door confiscating weapons, yes they did that in New Orleans, but the most likely situation is the incremental tightening and expanding of laws. They won't make some big line in the sand move, that would work against them.

Most of the gun crowd already have bowed to the laws ie. 1968 how you can transfer, what types you can own.

I find it interesting that some of the same folks who won't even anonymously protest or chance a misdemeanor arrest are going to fight to the death. I mean let's play out the scenerio... 5 am asleep, in your underwear, a dozen trained men in body armor with automatic weapons burst into your home... I don't see many taking that on with the pistol from the night stand.

I have to say that I don't imagine that there isn't many of the same ideas and feelings I have had myself... but, when you "game" them out in your head they don't lead to the outcome you are after.

Non-violent resistance are the only techniques that have succeeded in the last 50 years, against brutal totalitarian regimes. But, it takes, letting go of your prejudice to study the subject. It seems that the saying "to the man with a hammer, everything looks like a nail." applies here.

The mistake that is made is thinking that you should counter what the government does by trying to overpower them. It is an asymmetrical situation.
A small number of people can have significant effect... if the government looks like the thug bullies.

[Kat Kanning]

You sure are smart for a sickly lil guy.

[Free libertarian]

 Indeed, a rather insightful post Tom Sawyer.  A bit off topic but I gotta ask...what the heck is a "Leetninja" ?  Ever since I saw the name it's been bugging me. No really, it has. 

[Moebius Tripp]

Indeed, a rather insightful post Tom Sawyer.  A bit off topic but I gotta ask...what the heck is a "Leetninja" ?  Ever since I saw the name it's been bugging me. No really, it has. 

Probably a tongue-in-cheek reference to the oldschool BBS days when warez and r0dentz abounded, and being "L337" (elite) was kewl.