I have a question about something I was told at the doctor's yesterday

[Raineyrocks]

I've found that people who don't want to be fully responsible for their own decisions sometimes claim "it's the law" when it's not.

Sorry, I don't understand.

[Raineyrocks]

This is just my 2 cents. Since most states said FU to REAL ID, our drivers licenses are becoming the "ID instrument" used to keep track of us all. All places (banks, doctors offices, auto shops, pawn shops, grocery stores, insurance companies, you name it) are making all of us cough up ID.   

So basically, if you do not flash your DL, no service. That is what REAL ID was going to do, force you to comply or you won't be able to function in society (travel, buy food, etc). REAL ID didn't work but the new improved DL will be edged in without a whimper. They already have most of us fingerprinted under the newer DL's. Maybe the retinal scan will be next and then a blood sample to list your blood type.
Sounds like REAL ID, huh? They just won't call it that. 

BTW, Does anyone know what personal information is contained on that magnetic strip on the back of your DL?

A few years ago in Maryland I refused to give the kid's doctor their social security numbers because there answers to my questions made no sense as to why they needed them.  It was a battle but they gave up! 

This time I was a whimp and really sick so I just caved in but I do have another appointment in 6 months so I intend to question them further and see where it goes.   

[Raineyrocks]

I have heard that one area of Identity Theft that is growing by leaps and bounds is medical ID theft. People are either med seeking or desperate for medical care and so, using your name and SSN, they recieve services and never pay for them...but the medical care is attached to your information, not theirs, so, no biggie for them.

That is what I heard....criminal and medical ID theft are on the rise. But then....I disregard most of what I hear these days. It seems to me that a lot of the "information" we spread around amongst each other, is really only the way the government goes about planting a reality in our brain, that sets them up for implementing new law, etc. (For instance: Everyone is talking about how identities are being stolen left and right in medical settings, etc....so, the next time you are at the doctors office and they ask you for your ID, you don't question it, because you've "heard" that there have been problems and that doctors offices and other such places are going to have to step up "security measures")

I don't like flashing my ID. I think it's bull. Any time someone tells me "It's a new law....for your own good/protection"....my red alert sirens automatically go off. I know all about what's "for my own good" if I'm hearing about something that's for my "own good" from someone else....I call bullcrap.

Right, scare tactics, it is.   

[Raineyrocks]

According to an article I read in a health information management magazine yesterday (BTW, I do NOT read those for fun, it's work ), medical identity theft and prescription drug seeking are 2 major areas that the implementation of EHR (Electronic Health Record) is supposed to address. 

Did they want you to just show it each time, or actually to scan/copy it?  I can't help but think a lot of that should be a common sense/responsibility thing for the front desk to handle, right?  I mean, I've worked in a doctor's office and in hospitals, and it's pretty easy to tell if things are on the up and up if you're paying attention. 

Wow.  Please update if you find out more about this.  I'm very interested. 

They wanted me to show it every time I come in.   I will keep you updated, thanks.    I have another appointment in 6 months.

[Raineyrocks]

At the practice I work at, I believe that if you don't provide your social security number, we require a scan of your driver's license. I would say that most of patients' records that come across my desk have the SS# and on the ones that I have looked at the scanned files on, a good portion have a scan of their driver's license.

I can see how someone could steal medical services quite easily - and then receive treatment and then skip out on the bill. IN our practice, this could only happen if the real person's health insurance covered 100% because we require all payments up front. Even if only the insurance company ended up paying the bill, what would stink is if the real person tried to get similar services either in our facility or another, the insurance company would probably question it.

I don't think it is reasonable to expect the people working in a doctor's office - including the doctor - to actually remember people by sight only. They see hundreds of people every week - some are more memorable than others.

Yeah, I guess your right about the not remembering every face by sight only but when I come in they don't even ask for my name.  They know who I am because I'm always telling them jokes and stuff I guess. 

[Raineyrocks]

maybe I could get someone shorter and thinner to go in and do my physical for me.   That way I wouldn't have to hear the doctor tell me that I need to lose weight!

"well, Mr. Jankowski. . . I see . . .well. . . . wow. . . you've lost 200lbs, wow Congratulations!!!  Oh my, you've also lost a foot in height. . . weird."

[Raineyrocks]

       RaineyRocks, I am so sorry to hear of your troubles, but I can tell you that the narcotics reason is no doubt because of what we call in the profession "doctor shopping", people go to different doctors and load up on narcotics to use because of addiction or to sell for monetary gain.
      Chronic back pain is the usual complaint and when they can't get the drugs from the doctors office they hit up the ERs or fake to get admitted and if they succeed they will get low income health care coverage for future admittance to get their narcotics clean through an IV.
         I wish opium dens were legalized again so that these people could go there instead of the hospital with their selfish demands taking time away from people who are really sick and need the attention more. Your tax dollars hard at work!
       Note: I used chronic back pain as an example no offense to anyone who actually suffers and tries to do right, the people that I have mentioned above throw suspicion on the innocent as well as use the system.

Thanks Nemoslaw!     I know there are people who abuse the system but I don't even ask this doctor for narcotics just thyroid meds and b12.   I don't know if the doctor is even aware of what the receptionist said, I was too sick to go further with it that day but next time I'm going to.

[Raineyrocks]

It is part of the anti-identity theft legislation because people are supposedly using other people's insurance to get coverage when they don't have their own.  As a physician, I would say it is pretty easy to spot the drug shoppers.  people who are not seeking pain meds inappropriately are usually concerned about getting addicted.  Drug-seekers will usually refuse anything but their preferred drug saying the others "don't work for them," they are vague about when and how the injury they are seeking the drugs for occurred and they are real inconsistent in their reaction to the examination of the "painful" area.  If they were smart, they would do a little research on anatomy before they went to the doctor.  I am not saying I never get fooled but I am pretty good at spotting the baddies and they never have insurance, insist they will pay cash, refuse testing and generally don't pay their bills.

I don't have insurance though.  My concerns go further than this incident with showing id but I'm wondering why I was told it's a law as of the beginning of April and can't find this "law" anywhere.   

[Raineyrocks]

Re: pain meds, when I had my wisdom's taken out, I was given a prescription for a few vicodan, but the doc told me only to take them if 2 ibuprofen and 2 tylenol every few hours didn't do the trick. Hearing horror stories from my friends of outrageous pain following the surgery, I didn't imagine simple over the counter stuff would work. So I used tried the tylenol-ibuprofen mix, and realized I wasn't in pain. After a few days of feeling normal, I didn't take them, and my mouth was killing me. So apparently, the combo of the 2 is stronger than one would expect, or at least it was for me. And I got to save the vic's for a rainy day.

Cool! 

[Raineyrocks]

Here in Michigan we will be the 3rd state to implement REAL ID. It's not really REAL ID, it's an EDL which stands for Enhanced Drivers License.

I heard Katherine Albrecht say the EDL specific data that can be transferred to a EDL scanner through walls and up to 30 feet away is the equivalent of walking around with your SSN on your shirt. In conversation I've only had to make that point to supporters of REAL ID/EDL's. They hate it afterward. Most favor the military on our border.

The bad news isn't that this story isn't told in the MSM, you'd expect as much from the government media. It's the highly governmental regulated businesses that are forced to comply with this, like your doctor Rainey.

I have 3 suggestions:

1) comply

2) tell them (whoever that turns out to be) that you lost it. They'll find a way to get your compliance like rushing you to the front of the line at your next TSA check.

3) refuse to carry ID and face arrest.

People would be surprised at how much they could do without ID. Your doctor knows you. So does his staff. Try saying 'no' next time and guage their response. Be prepared to accept their outcome.

Thanks BigMike!       I'm not positive what I'm going to do next time.  Unfortunately I'm in a position where I found a really good doctor, (that I need for my thyroid until I find my own darn cure), but his office seems to have taken upon some crappy rules and maybe even lied about calling it a new law. 

[jerry]

Rainey,
The problem you encountered at the doctor's office was apparently caused by the
The Fair and Accurate Credit Transactions Act of 2003 (FACTA)
In it's infinite wisdom, the FTC has decided that anyone who performs services and bills later is extending credit, and therefore must comply with the Identity Theft Prevention rules.

But  the implementation has been delayed until August 1, 2009.

here's the notice from the FTC website:


"FTC Will Grant Three-Month Delay of Enforcement of 'Red Flags' Rule
Requiring Creditors and Financial Institutions to Adopt Identity Theft
Prevention Programs


The Federal Trade Commission will delay enforcement of the new "Red Flags
Rule" until August 1, 2009, to give creditors and financial institutions
more time to develop and implement written identity theft prevention
programs. For entities that have a low risk of identity theft, such as
businesses that know their customers personally, the Commission will soon
release a template to help them comply with the law. Today's announcement
does not affect other federal agencies' enforcement of the original November
1, 2008 compliance deadline for institutions subject to their oversight.


"Given the ongoing debate about whether Congress wrote this provision too
broadly, delaying enforcement of the Red Flags Rule will allow industries
and associations to share guidance with their members, provide low-risk
entities an opportunity to use the template in developing their programs,
and give Congress time to consider the issue further," FTC Chairman Jon
Leibowitz said.


The Fair and Accurate Credit Transactions Act of 2003 (FACTA) directed
financial regulatory agencies, including the FTC, to promulgate rules
requiring "creditors" and "financial institutions" with covered accounts to
implement programs to identify, detect, and respond to patterns, practices,
or specific activities that could indicate identity theft. FACTA's
definition of "creditor" applies to any entity that regularly extends or
renews credit – or arranges for others to do so – and includes all entities
that regularly permit deferred payments for goods or services. Accepting
credit cards as a form of payment does not, by itself, make an entity a
creditor. Some examples of creditors are finance companies; automobile
dealers that provide or arrange financing; mortgage brokers; utility
companies; telecommunications companies; non-profit and government entities
that defer payment for goods or services; and businesses that provide
services and bill later, including many lawyers, ! doctors, and other
professionals. "Financial institutions" include entities that offer accounts
that enable consumers to write checks or make payments to third parties
through other means, such as other negotiable instruments or telephone
transfers.


During outreach efforts last year, the FTC staff learned that some
industries and entities within the agency's jurisdiction were uncertain
about their coverage under the Red Flags Rule. During this time, FTC staff
developed and published materials to help explain what types of entities are
covered, and how they might develop their identity theft prevention
programs. Among these materials were an alert on the Rule's requirements,
www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/business/alerts/alt050.shtm, and a Web site with
more resources to help covered entities design and implement identity theft
prevention programs, www.ftc.gov/redflagsrule. The compliance template will
be available on this Web site.


The Federal Trade Commission works for consumers to prevent fraudulent,
deceptive, and unfair business practices and to provide information to help
spot, stop, and avoid them. To file a complaint in English or Spanish, visit
the FTC's online Complaint Assistant or call 1-877-FTC-HELP
(1-877-382-4357). The FTC enters complaints into Consumer Sentinel, a
secure, online database available to more than 1,500 civil and criminal law
enforcement agencies in the U.S. and abroad. The FTC's Web site provides
free information on a variety of consumer topics. "

[KBCraig]

Good lord.

When I place my order at a restaurant, and then eat it, I incur a debt. They "bill me later"... sometime between receiving the food and leaving, and I settle before the end of the night.

What about bar tabs, though? I don't frequent bars here, but I have in the past run a tab at pubs. Those businesses didn't "personally know" me to the point of knowing my full name, my address, or my phone number, and had never seen any identification, but they knew I would be back in a few days and would settle when asked.

Is every business transaction that isn't cash-on-the-spot now subject to FTC oversight because they're "lending"?

[Raineyrocks]

Rainey,
The problem you encountered at the doctor's office was apparently caused by the
The Fair and Accurate Credit Transactions Act of 2003 (FACTA)
In it's infinite wisdom, the FTC has decided that anyone who performs services and bills later is extending credit, and therefore must comply with the Identity Theft Prevention rules.

But  the implementation has been delayed until August 1, 2009.

here's the notice from the FTC website:


"FTC Will Grant Three-Month Delay of Enforcement of 'Red Flags' Rule
Requiring Creditors and Financial Institutions to Adopt Identity Theft
Prevention Programs


The Federal Trade Commission will delay enforcement of the new "Red Flags
Rule" until August 1, 2009, to give creditors and financial institutions
more time to develop and implement written identity theft prevention
programs. For entities that have a low risk of identity theft, such as
businesses that know their customers personally, the Commission will soon
release a template to help them comply with the law. Today's announcement
does not affect other federal agencies' enforcement of the original November
1, 2008 compliance deadline for institutions subject to their oversight.


"Given the ongoing debate about whether Congress wrote this provision too
broadly, delaying enforcement of the Red Flags Rule will allow industries
and associations to share guidance with their members, provide low-risk
entities an opportunity to use the template in developing their programs,
and give Congress time to consider the issue further," FTC Chairman Jon
Leibowitz said.


The Fair and Accurate Credit Transactions Act of 2003 (FACTA) directed
financial regulatory agencies, including the FTC, to promulgate rules
requiring "creditors" and "financial institutions" with covered accounts to
implement programs to identify, detect, and respond to patterns, practices,
or specific activities that could indicate identity theft. FACTA's
definition of "creditor" applies to any entity that regularly extends or
renews credit – or arranges for others to do so – and includes all entities
that regularly permit deferred payments for goods or services. Accepting
credit cards as a form of payment does not, by itself, make an entity a
creditor. Some examples of creditors are finance companies; automobile
dealers that provide or arrange financing; mortgage brokers; utility
companies; telecommunications companies; non-profit and government entities
that defer payment for goods or services; and businesses that provide
services and bill later, including many lawyers, ! doctors, and other
professionals. "Financial institutions" include entities that offer accounts
that enable consumers to write checks or make payments to third parties
through other means, such as other negotiable instruments or telephone
transfers.


During outreach efforts last year, the FTC staff learned that some
industries and entities within the agency's jurisdiction were uncertain
about their coverage under the Red Flags Rule. During this time, FTC staff
developed and published materials to help explain what types of entities are
covered, and how they might develop their identity theft prevention
programs. Among these materials were an alert on the Rule's requirements,
www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/business/alerts/alt050.shtm, and a Web site with
more resources to help covered entities design and implement identity theft
prevention programs, www.ftc.gov/redflagsrule. The compliance template will
be available on this Web site.


The Federal Trade Commission works for consumers to prevent fraudulent,
deceptive, and unfair business practices and to provide information to help
spot, stop, and avoid them. To file a complaint in English or Spanish, visit
the FTC's online Complaint Assistant or call 1-877-FTC-HELP
(1-877-382-4357). The FTC enters complaints into Consumer Sentinel, a
secure, online database available to more than 1,500 civil and criminal law
enforcement agencies in the U.S. and abroad. The FTC's Web site provides
free information on a variety of consumer topics. "

Thanks for the info and links!     I pay right away though so the doctor's practice isn't lending me anything so I don't understand what it would have to do with FACTA.   The receptionist said it was a brand new law to protect patients from indentity theft, unless I misunderstood the information above.

[n/a]

i could understand why people use fake names at hospitals.... they are too f-ing expensive!

here is the one aspect of my life where i feel like a bad libertarian, because i do have a lot of medical debt that i have no intention of paying for two reasons: a) the prices are so ridiculously high that i could never afford it; b) after having never asked to be taken to the hospital on these occasions, i would wake up in a hospital bed, with no medical treatment/medication/test/etc... having been done, apart from a $2 heat pad being placed on my stomach and a doctor giving me a quick glance, followed by a $700 to $2000 bill and a 'see ya later'.

i have dysmenorrhea (just like my mom), which is basically 'lady problem' cramps that are so intense they make you throw up and pass out.  mom said they hurt worse than labor pains, so at least i can look forward to an easy pregnancy when i have kids   anywho, on several occasions, including my first day at a new job, i have passed out because of the intense pain.  i warn people about it, i know it's gonna happen, but i can't just stop living 3 days every month and expect to get by.  but 5 times now, people have called the hospital when it happened, and i get carted off to be told, once again, 'there is nothing we can do.  that'll be $1000.'  no.  sorry, but 15 seconds of a doctor's time, and a new paper pillow case are not worth the price of my first 2 cars (combined).  i've written them letters, along with a package that had a disposable instant heat pack in it (to replace the one they gave me), saying 'i'm not paying for that, and neither are the taxpayers.  you didn't do anything.'  still haven't heard back from them :/

but, i've finally found the way to avoid ending up in the hospital once a month.  though i'm not particularly happy about the arrangement, it involves constantly using birth control and smoking weed during the hardest days.  it may not be legal, but it's the only thing i found that allows me to continue functioning.

[Raineyrocks]

i could understand why people use fake names at hospitals.... they are too f-ing expensive!

here is the one aspect of my life where i feel like a bad libertarian, because i do have a lot of medical debt that i have no intention of paying for two reasons: a) the prices are so ridiculously high that i could never afford it; b) after having never asked to be taken to the hospital on these occasions, i would wake up in a hospital bed, with no medical treatment/medication/test/etc... having been done, apart from a $2 heat pad being placed on my stomach and a doctor giving me a quick glance, followed by a $700 to $2000 bill and a 'see ya later'.

i have dysmenorrhea (just like my mom), which is basically 'lady problem' cramps that are so intense they make you throw up and pass out.  mom said they hurt worse than labor pains, so at least i can look forward to an easy pregnancy when i have kids   anywho, on several occasions, including my first day at a new job, i have passed out because of the intense pain.  i warn people about it, i know it's gonna happen, but i can't just stop living 3 days every month and expect to get by.  but 5 times now, people have called the hospital when it happened, and i get carted off to be told, once again, 'there is nothing we can do.  that'll be $1000.'  no.  sorry, but 15 seconds of a doctor's time, and a new paper pillow case are not worth the price of my first 2 cars (combined).  i've written them letters, along with a package that had a disposable instant heat pack in it (to replace the one they gave me), saying 'i'm not paying for that, and neither are the taxpayers.  you didn't do anything.'  still haven't heard back from them :/

but, i've finally found the way to avoid ending up in the hospital once a month.  though i'm not particularly happy about the arrangement, it involves constantly using birth control and smoking weed during the hardest days.  it may not be legal, but it's the only thing i found that allows me to continue functioning.

Hmmm, I like your 2nd cure idea!      Did you see the video I posted on here about the guy that got busted and thought of better ways of growing weed while in jail?  This guy rocks!   Oh my gosh, his stuff is so beautiful and fluffy, 9 or 30  plants yeilded him 9 pounds I think and it looks like mighty righteous weed.

  That reminds me, I just got "the bill" from my daughter's ER visit and they charged something like $30 or $60 for pharmaceuticals (sp?).  For God's sake they gave her 2 Zithromax, WTF!    I have to call them.