I Will Be Boycotting the NHUnderground Forums

[John Shaw]

The reason you cannot shoot cops etc, /Carl Drega and other insane, going postal people crap being equivalent to owning and enjoying firearms.

Who ever said ANYTHING about that?

This is the sorta straw man argument that makes me nuts.

Me owning and enjoying guns, or me carrying a gun for self defense has NOTHING to do with me using violence against ANY representative of the state. Get into a violent confrontation with the government, and you DIE. Period. Living is preferable to dying. I don't ever engage in confrontations in any way with the state, be it violent, or be it, say, annoying the, until they are violent toward me. I just avoid them as much as possible.

Eagerly awaiting accusations of sexual inadequacy leading to me enjoying the ownership and used of firearms.

[Lloyd Danforth]

I know that my interest in firearms (I owned 75 by the age of 18)ebbed when I started playing with girls.

[Free libertarian]

I know that my interest in firearms (I owned 75 by the age of 18)ebbed when I started playing with girls.

Lloyd I didnt think you were out of the stockade long enough learn this little marching tune..."this is my weapon, this is my gun, one is for shooting, one is for fun..."   

[Lloyd Danforth]

Well......whenever I was out of military control, I played with girls as often as possible.

[FreelanceFreedomFighter]

Living is preferable to dying. I don't ever engage in confrontations in any way with the state, be it violent, or be it, say, annoying the, until they are violent toward me. I just avoid them as much as possible. 

(Just an observation, but...) This is an interesting difference between the two camps on this thread.

The "gun cleaner" (per the Kannings) camp in general puts forth a belief in self-defense, doesn't wish to have any violent confrontation especially with minions of the system, doesn't want to push the system's buttons, usually conforms to the system trying to change the system within the boundaries of the system and tries to avoid any confrontation with the system as much as possible (perhaps in order to "protect" their RKBA, which the system authorities will take away upon confrontation with the system)...

The "pacifist" camp generally puts forth a belief in absolute non-violence at all costs, doesn't believe in violent confrontation under any circumstances especially with minions of the system, does push the system's buttons, intentionally does not conform to the system, does not believe in working within the boundaries of the system or cooperating with the system in any way and intentionally creates confrontation with the system in many cases through "civil disobedience"...

Interesting... who is really being confrontational with the system and it's authority figures... (ignoring for a minute the fact that "the State" has shown that they are ready, willing and able to squash either camp like bugs if they so desired... regardless of what "martyrs" might be created.)

Is that a "fair" observation?

[Jim Johnson]

I know that my interest in firearms (I owned 75 by the age of 18)ebbed when I started playing with girls.

Lloyd I didnt think you were out of the stockade long enough learn this little marching tune..."this is my weapon, this is my gun, one is for shooting, one is for fun..."   

I can never remember which is which.

[dalebert]

VERY well said, David.

[Jim Johnson]

Living is preferable to dying. I don't ever engage in confrontations in any way with the state, be it violent, or be it, say, annoying the, until they are violent toward me. I just avoid them as much as possible. 

(Just an observation, but...) This is an interesting difference between the two camps on this thread.

The "gun cleaner" (per the Kannings) camp in general puts forth a belief in self-defense, doesn't wish to have any violent confrontation especially with minions of the system, doesn't want to push the system's buttons, usually conforms to the system trying to change the system within the boundaries of the system and tries to avoid any confrontation with the system as much as possible (perhaps in order to "protect" their RKBA, which the system authorities will take away upon confrontation with the system)...

The "pacifist" camp generally puts forth a belief in absolute non-violence at all costs, doesn't believe in violent confrontation under any circumstances especially with minions of the system, does push the system's buttons, intentionally does not conform to the system, does not believe in working within the boundaries of the system or cooperating with the system in any way and intentionally creates confrontation with the system in many cases through "civil disobedience"...

Interesting... who is really being confrontational with the system and it's authority figures... (ignoring for a minute the fact that "the State" has shown that they are ready, willing and able to squash either camp like bugs if they so desired... regardless of what "martyrs" might be created.)

Is that a "fair" observation?

Seems pretty fair.
You didn't mention which side seems to back off of their beliefs when truly confronted by the state.

I believe it is the guncleaners.  Their position leaves the state with only one possible response, violence.

But as you have said, they don't wish to have any violent confrontations with the state. That's what makes guncleaners annoying... they boast and swagger and posture and when it comes time they hide and hang their heads and pout their, "if only every body would have been there..." or ....if only this would have happened... or that would have happened.  That shows guncleaners to be liars if not out right cowards.

And, as it has been said many times in the past, this is not the FSP.
This is the NHUnderground, it's Kat and Russell's place.
If one does not like it here there are other places to go.

[John Shaw]

All I do is run and hide. That's right.

EDIT: That sounded snide. Sorry.

It's just that not all guncleaners run and hide, either. We don't just rely on one thing, and to suggest otherwise is an unfair characterization.

Might as well compare guns to genitals.

[Jim Johnson]

Might as well compare guns to genitals.

I thought I was.   

[Goble]

I don't know any of the parties involved, but after reading the piece by Mrs. Kanning and reading AnarchoJesse's response, it seems he may have taken things a little too personally.

Mrs. Kanning was making a personal statement about herself, and using Jesse as an example of what she's afraid she might do in a similar situation; i.e. while carrying. Though she may be guilty of projecting her own feelings onto Jesse, the fact remains that in a situation where Jesse was carrying a weapon that could have easily, in the right hands, overpowered the drunken group, I would have to say that Jesse, knowing that he was carrying a real weapon, was the bully pretending to be the bullied and definitely no sort of victim.

Mac-11's on shoestrings, as hilarious as that may be, is a very kid-pretending-to-be-mad-max sort of way to carry, and the antagonistic drunks might not have even realized it was real. I also wonder where all people involved were standing, because if the neighbors were heckling from their own property, I don't see what right Jesse had to approach them at all.

This is not a personal statement, I don't know him. He may be a very nice person who felt pushed to the point of making a statement, which he did. But unintended and unforeseen consequences are always part of the larger equation. He's now made himself a target, with the help of Mrs. Kanning, and her article and any subsequent publicity could later be used as fodder for the gun-control crowd. I'm sure this would be completely unintended, if anything came of it, on Mrs. Kanning's part.

On a positive note, the conversation this has spurred, though nothing new, is something quite necessary in an armed society. I hope Jesse, the drunks, Mrs. Kanning and all who read this grow the wiser for it, I know I have. I also hope that Jessie and all others involved directly or indirectly resolve their differences.  

[John Shaw]

Might as well compare guns to genitals.

I thought I was.   

The suggestion that guns, an instrument of death, are a replacement for genital deficiency says more about what you think of sex than what I think about guns.

[Caleb]

lighten up.  he was joking.    Are you reading the same thread as me?

[Jim Johnson]

Must have hit it right on the knob... sorry about that. 

[John Shaw]

lighten up.  he was joking.    Are you reading the same thread as me?

Sorry, seems like a bit of a dog pile, and I was getting a little sad.

Probably an overreaction.

Must have hit it right on the knob... sorry about that. 

Perhaps not.