I Will Be Boycotting the NHUnderground Forums

[Peacemaker]

though,i do find the cleaning process to be calming to me..

Can you clean my gun too then? I hate it.

if this is a triple entendre or something .... don't tell me ... I am eating lunch

[Pat K]

Let me guess it went off, when you were cleaning it.

[dalebert]

Russell and Pat, you each owe me a buck for such a great setup.

[Pat K]

Russell and Pat, you each owe me a buck for such a great setup.

Oh now he wants to get paid for it too!

[David]

The reason you cannot shoot cops etc, /Carl Drega and other insane, going postal people crap being equivalent to owning and enjoying firearms.

Who ever said ANYTHING about that?

This is the sorta straw man argument that makes me nuts.

Me owning and enjoying guns, or me carrying a gun for self defense has NOTHING to do with me using violence against ANY representative of the state. Get into a violent confrontation with the government, and you DIE. Period. Living is preferable to dying. I don't ever engage in confrontations in any way with the state, be it violent, or be it, say, annoying the, until they are violent toward me. I just avoid them as much as possible.

Eagerly awaiting accusations of sexual inadequacy leading to me enjoying the ownership and used of firearms.

John, that is not a quote from me. 

The reason you cannot shoot cops etc, is the same reason you cannot spank another persons child, even if they spank their own child.  It is an issue of legitimacy.  legitimacy is the difference between the clan rulers (a form of patriarchal gov't) of Somalia, and the USA gov't.  It is the difference between Mexicos' gov't and the USA gov't, (if you would join a military, would you even consider joining the Mexican army?).  It is the difference between Hans Solo casually shooting at imperial storm troopers (the military), and the average fat and happy American watching Idol on tv. 

Look at the political trends in this country.  Do you really think that if your wished for shooting war begins that the trend would somehow be anything close to what you believe would be good gov't?  You do realize that both the facists and the socialists would shoot libertarians, right?  We are vastly outnumbered. 

What some here apparently believe is a viable option is the Carl Drega option.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Drega  He killed some gov't people, but didn't live long to enjoy his 'freedom'.  I have no doubt that after the dust settled, the outpouring of support was not for Drega, but for the people he killed. 

It is amazing how people in a political minority group, (libertarian oriented people) who literally can't get dog catchers elected, somehow think that the people are fed up enough to join a shooting war against gov't.  Oh, and nevermind that the gov't in question has the most powerful military in history, and that they damn sure will go house to house confiscating weapons (New Orleans).  And nevermind that they will villify and murder anyone who opposes them.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MOVE  The cops literally dropped a bomb that eventually burned nearly a city block killing several people unrelatted to the targets. 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Branch_Davidian_Massacre  20 children and 2 pregnant women were killed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruby_Ridge_Standoff  Vicky Weaver was shot in the head. 

Wow.  Keep dreaming guys.  And why you are at it, keep blaming the Kannings, those evil pacifists who don't want to take your guns away.    

Living is preferable to dying. I don't ever engage in confrontations in any way with the state, be it violent, or be it, say, annoying the, until they are violent toward me. I just avoid them as much as possible. 

(Just an observation, but...) This is an interesting difference between the two camps on this thread.

The "gun cleaner" (per the Kannings) camp in general puts forth a belief in self-defense, doesn't wish to have any violent confrontation especially with minions of the system, doesn't want to push the system's buttons, usually conforms to the system trying to change the system within the boundaries of the system and tries to avoid any confrontation with the system as much as possible (perhaps in order to "protect" their RKBA, which the system authorities will take away upon confrontation with the system)...

The "pacifist" camp generally puts forth a belief in absolute non-violence at all costs, doesn't believe in violent confrontation under any circumstances especially with minions of the system, does push the system's buttons, intentionally does not conform to the system, does not believe in working within the boundaries of the system or cooperating with the system in any way and intentionally creates confrontation with the system in many cases through "civil disobedience"...

Interesting... who is really being confrontational with the system and it's authority figures... (ignoring for a minute the fact that "the State" has shown that they are ready, willing and able to squash either camp like bugs if they so desired... regardless of what "martyrs" might be created.)

Is that a "fair" observation?

Yes.  With one exception.  The reason Lyndon Johnson and The Decider #1 had to lie the USA into wars, was because they wanted to avoid the unpleasant repercussions, of outright aggression.  Though it is true, they could squash us like a bug, we are simply a libertarian version of the several activist groups out there, and naked aggression would not be simply forgotten. 

Those in power and privilege rarely give it up without being challenged, we are in a position to do that far better than others.

[FreelanceFreedomFighter]

Though it is true, they could squash us like a bug, we are simply a libertarian version of the several activist groups out there, and naked aggression would not be simply forgotten. 

Those in power and privilege rarely give it up without being challenged, we are in a position to do that far better than others.

Given that something on the order of 170 million people were murdered at the hands of their own governments during the 20th century along, then the question for both camps becomes: How many are you willing to sacrifice for how long? (and on a related note, Could the changes to government have been accomplished with less loss of life using different tactics?)

Given that those who perished have already long been forgotten (Holocaust aside) by the world at large, their survivors may regret having not used, or at least tried, a different tactic. Perhaps, in one situation, going along to get along may be the best course. Then again, if there is clear evidence of the violent evil intentions against someone (or their loved ones), the best course of action may be to make a stand... or flee somehow. Just food for thought...

[watershed]

Why can't confidence, boldness, stength,patience and humility take the place of a side arm, guns are for fighting battles and hunting, but a much as I trust having one near my bed...........I shall never need one on the streets. My bare hands, attitude, clear headed judgement will keep me safe...Always.

[akmisrmaadi]

wrong. you are defenseless and you will submit to anything anyone wants or die.

[AntonLee]

I still have hands.

[tracysaboe]

I've always been of the opinion that a person carrying a sidearm should strive to develop the same kind of mental discipline and wisdom most oriental marshal arts teach. Never "act" like you're strong or armed. Be passive. Part of understanding self defense is being smart and avoiding situations where you might need to use your skills, etc. 

If you're cocky and "show off" that you've got a firearm or that you're a black belt, or whatever -- punks are going to do their best to try and goad you into a fight -- it's just easier if they don't know.

This is one reason why I don't currently carry a side-arm is because I feel like I probably don't have the wisdom, and serenity to use it properly -- of course that comes with training. I'm afraid I'd do something stupid like tell somebody I'm carrying at work or something and then there would be this big tizzy.

Same time, I still would encourage people to open carry -- if nothing else, then to get people reaccustomed to guns again. For people that feel comfortable, I think Dada's open carrying that he does is admirable. From what I understand there are still idiots in NH who call the cops just because somebody's carrying -- and that needs to stop.

Tracy

Tracy

[Kat Kanning]

Nice post, Tracy.

[slave_3646]

Why can't confidence, boldness, stength,patience and humility take the place of a side arm, guns are for fighting battles and hunting, but a much as I trust having one near my bed...........I shall never need one on the streets. My bare hands, attitude, clear headed judgement will keep me safe...Always.

If one always knew when they would need to defend themself, they would never need to defend themeself.

-me, now

[geoff]

Why can't confidence, boldness, stength,patience and humility take the place of a side arm, guns are for fighting battles and hunting, but a much as I trust having one near my bed...........I shall never need one on the streets. My bare hands, attitude, clear headed judgement will keep me safe...Always.

How does this make sense?  You say you keep one near your bed but not with you in the streets.  Your house that you probably keep locked at night, and would have earlier warning to intruders in, is probably much safer than in the streets. I don't understand why people think it's not ok to defend yourself or your family from predatory people.  This is along the same lines as saying, "It couldn't happen to me," or, "It will never happen here."  Anywhere there are other people who you cannot control (which is everywhere), you should not feel it wrong, immoral, or that you are looking to punish some bad guys just for having a TOOL that can help save your life.  Even if you were Chuck Norris, the advantage that your bare hands, attitude, clear headed judgment do not afford you is a script where you karate chop all the bad guys and come out ok.

[AnarchoJesse]

Good to see this thread is still here. I've grown bored, and the Underground is always good for kicking shit around.

For all of my detractors, and especially YOU, Kat: They never did build statues for critics.

For those who supported me, thank you.

[Kat Kanning]

Better keep boycotting me.  It was just starting to do me some good!