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Author Topic: Police took my guns & charged me with receiving stolen property  (Read 12149 times)

Recumbent ReCycler

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Re: Police took my guns & charged me with receiving stolen property
« Reply #15 on: June 06, 2009, 09:19 AM NHFT »

The man who wrote the letter ass-u-me-d that they were SIG products and wrote that he would consider them stolen.  Of course they have no record of ever making or having frames that were made like that and had never reported any frames like that as having been stolen.
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Lloyd Danforth

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Re: Police took my guns & charged me with receiving stolen property
« Reply #16 on: June 06, 2009, 09:37 AM NHFT »

He didn't say they weren't Sigs
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Re: Police took my guns & charged me with receiving stolen property
« Reply #17 on: June 06, 2009, 09:54 AM NHFT »

He didn't say they weren't Sigs
But if they were stolen from SigSauer, then they would either have to have been made there or they would have to have serial numbers.  Manufacturers, just like everyone else, aren't allowed to transfer firearms without serial numbers.
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bigmike

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Re: Police took my guns & charged me with receiving stolen property
« Reply #18 on: June 06, 2009, 12:07 PM NHFT »

I have a hard time believing a jury would be able to find you guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

I'm not sure what you call that protrusion on the frame's handle that would appear to separate your middle finger from your ring finger and pinkie, but it's pretty clear they're not the same frames as the Sig frames they are claiming them to be.

Did Sig ever make a frame with that same feature on the handle? If not, you're in the clear. If they did, were they made around the same time you worked there or would there be any the property at that time?

In discovery did you ask Sig for copies of any police reports made around the time you worked there regarding any stolen property? Now that this attorney drafted this letter for Sig, have they done an inventory that revealed any missing parts from the factory that would verify they may in fact be from there?

It seems to me a firearm manufacturer would have pretty stringent inventory procedures and, depending on what was found to be unaccounted for, there may even be federal regulations as to how that is to be reported.

Are you planning to call the gunsmith you purchased the frames from as a witness? Are there receipts of your purchase?

I think with an affidavit from the gunsmith and a few properly worded motions you could have had this tossed without having a trial. Is this the pretrial exam or the trial itself coming up?



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KBCraig

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Re: Police took my guns & charged me with receiving stolen property
« Reply #19 on: June 06, 2009, 01:32 PM NHFT »

The letter claims the frames belong to Sig

Except they don't. SIG never made such frames. KT Ordnance did, and sold them to Tim.
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Re: Police took my guns & charged me with receiving stolen property
« Reply #20 on: June 06, 2009, 02:03 PM NHFT »

SigSauer never made frames like those as part of their product line, and I doubt they ever made anything like that in their custom shop.  Also, if you go to the KT Ordnance website and read about his manufacturing process, it is very evident on the 1911 frame that it was made with the process that KT Ordnance uses.  SigSauer makes their frames on much more expensive machines, and each one is made from one piece of metal.  KT Ordnance makes his KT-1911 and made his KT-228 frames from 2 halves which are then permanently attached.  Close examination should reveal that the KT-228 frame was made from 2 halves.  A mere glance would reveal that the KT-1911 has a seam where the 2 halves are brazed together.  SigSauer never made pistol frames from 2 halves and brazed them together because with their equipment they don't need to.  Check out the links I put in my first post on this thread to get the whole story.  I never got a receipt for the unfinished frames, but Mr. Celata gave a statement to an investigator indicating that he did in fact sell them to me in 2004 and that I then machined them at his shop with his equipment.  The prosecutor said he wants to cross-examine Mr. Celata, who lives in Montana now.  I believe that the cops are being vindictive because I had filed complaints against them in the past with the State Attorney General's office and the City Manager after I discovered that they were blatantly violating the law and the chief told me that he didn't care what the law said and that he expected me to follow his rules, which he made up as it suited him.  Earlier this year I discovered that they were still blatantly violating the law, but I didn't do anything about it this time because nobody will hold them accountable for what they do, and complaining will only result in more unwanted attention on me.
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bigmike

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Re: Police took my guns & charged me with receiving stolen property
« Reply #21 on: June 06, 2009, 04:15 PM NHFT »

You should have received a list of witnesses they want to call against you, is Mr. Celeta on that list? I can't believe they'll subpoena him from Montana but you never know ::) Hopefully Shawver is there, I'd love to cross examine that guy.

Sorry I didn't start paying attention to this thread until recently, Tim. There's not enough time to send any interrogatories or request for admissions (unless you have already).

I am working on some questions for you that you may want to ask when you have the opportunity to cross examine. You should have my contact info. They'll be ready tomorrow.




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Re: Police took my guns & charged me with receiving stolen property
« Reply #22 on: June 08, 2009, 05:47 PM NHFT »

The trial is going to be postponed.  I don't know the date yet, but it will probably be in August.
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Lloyd Danforth

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Re: Police took my guns & charged me with receiving stolen property
« Reply #23 on: June 08, 2009, 06:07 PM NHFT »

The letter claims the frames belong to Sig

Except they don't. SIG never made such frames. KT Ordnance did, and sold them to Tim.

I'm just saying that the letter doesn't seem to help his case.  It might be useful in a lawsuit though. Lawyers got money.
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Re: Police took my guns & charged me with receiving stolen property
« Reply #24 on: June 08, 2009, 06:25 PM NHFT »

Of course the letter doesn't help my case.  It was written at the request of the Somersworth PD.
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Re: Police took my guns & charged me with receiving stolen property
« Reply #25 on: September 18, 2009, 11:30 AM NHFT »

Sorry I forgot to update this post.  The trial is scheduled for September 24th at 9am at the Dover District Court.  I just got a call from my lawyer.  The cops offered to drop the charges if they can keep my pistol frames.  I told him that didn't sound like a good deal at all because I want my son to eventually get those frames.  So as of right now, the trial is still on, and I would like to see friends there.  Plans may change if the police make an offer I can't refuse or if they just drop the charges and return my property.
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bigmike

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Re: Police took my guns & charged me with receiving stolen property
« Reply #26 on: September 18, 2009, 01:47 PM NHFT »

My how nice of them ::) It's too bad the cops won't get sanctioned by the court for wasting time on such a weak case. This could likely have been dismissed with a good "fraud on the court" argument early on.

I'll likely make it if I can catch a ride.
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doobie

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Re: Police took my guns & charged me with receiving stolen property
« Reply #27 on: September 18, 2009, 05:23 PM NHFT »

I'm sure they are made that you didn't just roll over and let them keep the frames. Poor them.  I hope you screw them over big time.
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Re: Police took my guns & charged me with receiving stolen property
« Reply #28 on: September 18, 2009, 06:19 PM NHFT »

I'm considering a possible lawsuit against the officers and Sig employees who made false statements and filed false charges in this case, but I think I would need a lawyer who would be willing to work for a % of the award.
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Jim Johnson

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Re: Police took my guns & charged me with receiving stolen property
« Reply #29 on: September 18, 2009, 09:53 PM NHFT »

I'm considering a possible lawsuit against the officers and Sig employees who made false statements and filed false charges in this case, but I think I would need a lawyer who would be willing to work for a % of the award.

Sig is responsible for what their employees do.
If Sig was made to hurt, non of their employees would perpetrate this crime on anyone again.
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