The Schism!

[Pat McCotter]

It's Mourning in America
by Jim Panyard
07/31/2009

Excerpt. Read it all at the link.

Across the country countless groups and organizations with some ideas of the past, what the U.S. Constitution was intended to say, what mistakes have been made and how they could have been avoided, are working to bring about political change.

While admirable at some level, these efforts are a waste of time, energy and money. Is it better to have false hope or no hope at all? The political system, thence, our system of government, is a closed shop. It's like playing cards with The Cincinnati Kid. The deck is stacked and if you start getting an edge, the rules change. In our system of "Blind Justice", the lady with the scales is always winking at the political suitors who brought her to the dance.

Those looking to save the remnants of America would be better served to look further down the road and try to set up a fallback position for freedom through education of the younger generation in history, economics, freedom and independence.

[Mark_FTL]

those people who are namecalling because they feel like no one wants to help them should go suck an egg.  You can't force people to do things, so what you're going to go around making fun of people who choose to do different activism?

how juvenile.  Is that the way you get sales?  If they don't go along with the crap you're shoveling you start making fun of them and what they do?

Probably not right, because then you won't get anything but a dial tone.  Take a hint politicos.

Anton

I am not name-calling, trying to make anyone do anything, or making fun of anyone. If others are doing that, I wish they wouldn't, but as you say I can only control myself. I live with and interact with the out-of-the-system activists, thus I must decide how I deal with them and their activism. I believe that I have come up with a fair system. If they vote and I think they do good activism, I will try harder to participate. If they don't, even if I think it is good activism, I won't. Because I believe this is what they are doing to others. Does this make more sense?

[dalebert]

I believe that I have come up with a fair system.

Of course it's fair. I don't see any more point in us obsessing over winning the support of one person or even a handful of political activists who are prone to use us for scape-goating then I see in you obsessing over a handful of hardcore non-voters. Hell, I even told them to go ahead and use me as a scapegoat if it would make them feel better. We're recruiting apolitical activists to Keene at an astounding, possibly even an exponential rate. I think we should let you do what you want and move on. It is a silly waste of effort to argue over something that both of us seem quite firm about. I tried to say that at least three times when this came up on the show and led into overtime because you can't let go of it.

So we're good? We can all get on with our lives now and let this thread die? Awesome!

[JJ]

...
If FTL is not going to support activists that refuse to vote, then I have no interest in listening to FTL anymore. I will pick another podcast that is more activist and internet friendly. ...

I believe Ian will support activists that refuse to vote and he is part of FTL therefore your quoted statement about FTL not supporting is false.

[Mark_FTL]

I think this is just a lame attempt at generating controversy for the radio show.

That is what the politicians say about the freedom activists in Keene.

[Mark_FTL]

I will no longer lend my support to the activism of activists that refuse to vote to protect their friends and neighbors from the aggressions of the government.

You must debate me while cutting wood on our farm.

Yeah, sure. When I get done putting my wood up for winter and building the addition to my wood shed.

[Tom Sawyer]

You fancy man, flaunting your wealth... He's getting an addition to his wood shed! 

[Mark_FTL]

You fancy man, flaunting your wealth.

Well, you are half right.

[EthanLeeVita]

I don't care about Moral Support.  This is a practical issue.

      "I hereby state my solemn intent to move to the State of New Hampshire. Once there, I will exert the fullest practical effort toward the creation of a society in which the maximum role of civil government is the protection of life, liberty, and property."


What part of  I will exert the fullest practical effort do you not understand?

And this is why I refuse to sign the FSP.

[MengerFan]

Ok, so I don't vote.So now Mark won't support what I support. I support Free Talk Live. So now Mark has to quit Free Talk Live.

I should define what I mean by support. I won't talk crap about activism that I think is good and helpful. I just won't help in that activism. I won't shun or refuse to hang out with people I like or love as a result either. I just wish to show others the alienation they are growing in others.

Nice dodge, Dodgington. So who's taking your place on the show? I'll vote for Dale.

[FTL_Ian]

Mark, you don't really help with anything the apoliticals do (that I have seen), so where's the loss in you declaring withdrawal of support?  You are clearly trolling.

You've even gone so far as to say you won't support a nonvoter's activism even if you think it's good.  Talk about counterproductive!   

[EthanLeeVita]

I vote for Dale too! And rather ironic that we are voting(albeit non-statist, voluntary voting) considering the origin of the thread.

[Mark_FTL]

Mark, you don't really help with anything the apoliticals do (that I have seen), so where's the loss in you declaring withdrawal of support?  You are clearly trolling.

You've even gone so far as to say you won't support a nonvoter's activism even if you think it's good.  Talk about counterproductive!   

I've held signs, I've gone to court, I create media. That seems like about all most of the out-of-the-system activists can claim.

[FTL_Ian]

I should define what I mean by support. I won't talk crap about activism that I think is good and helpful. I just won't help in that activism. I won't shun or refuse to hang out with people I like or love as a result either. I just wish to show others the alienation they are growing in others.

If you feel alienated, the onus of responsibility for that feeling is on you, not anyone else.  It is not the intent of nonvoters to alienate you.  They have decided to focus where they think is effective - they didn't decide to stop voting to piss off the politicos.  You have declared yourself upset at them and are now trying to "get even", despite the fact that nothing was done to you in the first place.  So, you cut your nose off to spite your face and refuse to support non-voters even in activism you agree with. 

I still vote sometimes and I will proudly continue to support all activism I agree with.

[FTL_Ian]

I've held signs, I've gone to court, I create media. That seems like about all most of the out-of-the-system activists can claim.

Sorry, I meant nonvoters, not apoliticals.  Let me clarify:

Held signs for a nonvoter?  Don't recall ever seeing you at the jail.  Where and for whom?

Gone to court for a nonvoter?  For whom and when?