"Fitting In"

[toowm]

I am interested in one of the side points from the 420/MJ bill threads: is there value in "fitting in" with locals? While a natural split might have politicos say yes and voluntariasts say no, I don't think it's that simple.

If one possible goal is a free society, there is a process of changing the views of society towards liberty. Some folks will catch the spark quickly and get energized by civil disobedience. Others will be turned off by it, but that doesn't shut them off from future growth. Just look at the journey that each of us has had to where we are now. For some, it's always been there, for others it was a "conversion" experience, while others moved slowly away from the mainstream by increments.

With the goal of changing the course of the stream, we need to have people available and supportive at all points along it. For me personally, this does resonate with Christian evangelism (some are called to be preachers, others prophets, teachers,...; be in the world but not of it;etc.) In changing hearts and minds, there is no one formula or magic bullet, but it is helpful to have a goal in mind.

My most passionate issue is schooling. I don't believe we can create a free society by sending 92% of children to government indoctrination camps for 13 years, even if we can deprogram some of them in adulthood. I don't have an answer, but I am working in-system, out-system, political, grassroots, civil disobedience, every possible way I can think of to change this tragedy. And I believe that the things that my wife and I do in the homeschool community *and* with public-schooled kids and parents in our town are part of this plan.

Fitting in is part of the solution for me, even if it isn't living free, because I believe it increases my freedom in the future.

[dalebert]

While a natural split might have politicos say yes and voluntariasts say no, I don't think it's that simple.

You're right, Toowm. It's not that simple. A lot of voluntaryists are working to make positive inroads with the locals with things like volunteer work, joining up with local churches and other religious groups and other socializing opportunities, and otherwise getting involved locally. Also, I'm a fan of challenging the system, but I am not always a fan of how it's done by different activists. I'm trying to encourage and promote digging our heels in against the actions we oppose without making it personal or doing it angrily. The more calm and rational we remain while presenting our ideas, the better they will be received. I think we chisel away slowly at the barriers between us and those who are buying into the status quo instead of barreling in with a bull dozer.

I think your choice of focus is an excellent one. Improving the education before people get indoctrinated is that ounce of prevention vs. a pound of cure in adulthood.

[Ogre]

As you mention, there is certainly great value in having coaches at all points along that path. At the same time, realize that people can make individual decisions not along that continuum. For example, I'm with you on schooling. My children will not be in a public school under any circumstances. i will take them and hide before I allow that to happen. No amount of, "Gee, but if you just do this, it will be a step in the right direction" will change my mind on that issue -- much like many people have already staked their position in the M/420 debate.

At the same time, I'm willing to support and help others do things that will make things more free. I can even support some laws that move in the right direction -- as long as those laws don't stop me from being free.

So to your original question, "Is there value in 'fitting in' with locals?" Absolutely. And I'm no politico, I assure you. I'm willing to fit in up to the point where "the locals" want to take my freedom from me.

Of course, one of the ideas that really, really attracted me to the FSP in the first place was the idea that the FSP would bring together a large group of people with diverse interests and ideas with one common goal: freedom. As I read about the FSP in the early days, it was very, very clear that some people would be working within the system to support freedom and some would be working far on the outside of the system -- and again, that's what attracted me because I thought there's no way to lose that kind of battle.  Well, no way unless the two sides that both wanted liberty decided they wanted to fight amongst themselves...

[K. Darien Freeheart]

To me, it's a bit simpler and a bit more complex.

I'm willing to be "the oddball" if it means advocating freedom. I was at Price Chopper's in West Lebanon the other night, around 12:45am and being told about the inability to sell alcohol after midnight. The register lady apologized in typical customer service fashion. I asked her "Did you write that law?" in a friendly tone?

"Of course not! I'd not write something that stupid. I've been workign for a few hours, it's just now my lunch break!"

"Then you have nothing to apologize to me for. I think that's how they get us, you know?"

"No?"

"They tell us it's "our" law, and that "we" should respect it. But the lawmakers and bureaucrats who enforce it are the people acting stupid, not us. We respect our neighbor's choices."

"I like the way you think!"

"We'll change these silly proceedures. *smile*"

At that moment, this cashier was a Free Stater. Didn't sign a paper, didn't pledge to move. But she agreed with me, right then, right there, on THAT issue. On the back of my car is a Free State Project decal and below it, a New Hampshire license place. I've made the move, and becoming a Granite Stater hasn't made me less of a Free Stater.

I don't hide the fact that I'm a Porcupine. If someone asks me, I answer honestly. I'd prefer my neighbors to answer ME honestly.

Being a Free Stater and being a good neighbor aren't conflicts in my mind, so I see no reason to choose "blend in" or "stick out" as options. My neighbors hate the aggression used against them; they just sometimes don't realize what it is.

[KBCraig]

Kevin: well done, and well said. 

[AntonLee]

Nice Kevin!

most people hide the fact that they're freestaters.  They're scared of being shunned in the community for :gasp: wanting freedom.

So let them hate you.  What's the big deal?  People hate me and I do just fine combating their ridiculous arguments with severe and sarcastic logic.

I had a friend that I drove to a store to get some coke.  He came out of the store with his stuff and a new pair of shoes.  He told me that he replaced his old shoes with the new ones and stole them because "Marshalls makes a ton of money"

I explained to him about why we don't steal from each other and why Marshalls isn't just a logo on a building it's a company like the one we both worked for, with people who can be affected by theft.  I asked him how he would feel if I took his sneakers and left him there to walk home.  He didn't like it.  I explained the NAP to him in a nutshell and he agreed.

Without a second thought, and before I could make the suggestion, he did what real human beings should do.  He made good.

He walked back into the store (I followed) and he went to the shoes on the rack.  He took his old shoes and put them back on, and put the other sneakers in the box.  He brought the box up front, explained that he just tried to steal them to the girl (!) and paid for them.

We had a great discussion then about how much better he feels about the fact that he used his life to create labor and his labor earned him money in which he used to gain a new pair of shoes.  He took it to heart.  A mere day later he told me that he started reading about free state project stuff and asked if he could join.  (He already moved to NH)

As much as some would like to think otherwise, the true freedom crowd DOES fit in with normal society, and we have a lot to teach people.  Some will listen, and some will not.  Our actions must follow the principles that we believe, not to pander to those who have not yet come to the understanding of true liberty and freedom for all.  If you pander, you will fail. 

If you give your opinion to people honestly, they will respect you regardless of whether or not they agree with it.  If you pander to just try and change stupid laws into less stupid laws, people will think you're a joke to not only society, but to your movement as well.

I got a PM asking "what the fuck kind of asshole are you" recently on a forum.  I would say that most that know me will tell you how much I truly do care for my fellow human being.  I want everyone to be free to do as they please so long as their actions are not aggression.

I'm very happy being the "anti-government jerk" or the "confused" guy.  I'm in a much better place mentally now than I was as a statist trying to make new laws to counteract old ones.  It didn't work in MA, it won't work in NH.  Acting free will gain new people even if they spout horrible things at you.  I met an anarchist in Harvard Square once.  I tore up his fliers and spit on him.  I told him I'd kill him if he spoke another wrong word about my beloved America. 

is there any doubt that freedom brings people to a better place?  Is there doubt that people can change?  Is there any real change happening through this legislative process or is the change going to come through being free and showing others you're not afraid to do so?

The movement is growing.  I think the movement rests with those "punks" in the square.  They'll be alive to see these laws become moot on their own.

[dalebert]

I'm very happy being the "anti-government jerk" or the "confused" guy.  I'm in a much better place mentally now than I was as a statist trying to make new laws to counteract old ones.  It didn't work in MA, it won't work in NH.  Acting free will gain new people even if they spout horrible things at you.  I met an anarchist in Harvard Square once.  I tore up his fliers and spit on him.  I told him I'd kill him if he spoke another wrong word about my beloved America.

Oooohhhhh! This is the old you. I get it now. I was all "Why the fuck would you do that even if he was the 'wrong' kind of anarchist?" It's my senility. I'm slow on the uptake sometimes.

[dalebert]

I definitely don't hide the fact that I'm a Free Stater but it's also not the first thing I care to say about myself. When it came up at the Community Kitchen, I pointed out that it's what brought me here 2 years ago. It raised some eyebrows because people had already gotten to know me and like me. Now the discovery was an opportunity to shatter inaccurate stereotypes. I used to identify more with it and I think that was natural for a period of time after I moved. Now I identify with it far less and feel more like a local. The reality is that it's a very broad group which includes, for instance, a lot of political activists and people just otherwise trying lots of different things that aren't necessarily my bag. I'm not necessarily against what various people are doing but I don't necessarily have the same focus. I'd rather identify with something like Free Keene which has MUCH more specific goals in line with my own.

I guess it's something like Ian choosing voluntaryist over anarchist for describing himself. Voluntaryist is a more positive thing, i.e. promoting something good vs. just opposing something that's bad. That's the way I tend to view Free Keene. The slogan isn't "We're out to put a stop to tyrannical government!" Rather it's about promoting a peaceful, voluntary society, e.g. "Peaceful Evolution". It's not enough to just tell someone that there is a horrible cancer destroying our communities. You have to replace it with something because it seems to leave a gaping hole behind in their mind.

[Russell Kanning]

i don't try to "fit in", but it happens with most people

[Sam A. Robrin]

YOU'RE CRAZY
COPYRIGHT 2009 by Sam A. Robrin or whoever the hell it is who writes these things. Go ahead and use it, but if you make a little money on it, I want some!

My earliest of memories are shot through with a yearning
To understand existence and increase my store of learning.
Relatives and parents all agreed that I'd love schooling--
What I found when I got there, though, showed they were only fooling.
It wasn't the curriculum that caused dissatisfaction,
But that it came in second to their code of social action.

And they'd say these words to me [Alphabet song]:
You're crazy, nutty, weird, insane, you're different, you're strange--
Unfit for human company unless you start to change.
To make atonement for this inconceivable enormity,
We'll grudgingly allow you to affect a bland conformity.

My inner self marooned, abandoned, incommunicado,
In time, my sad lot must improve, I said with false bravado,
While rising through the ranks of so-called "higher education."
But all I got was more suspicion and humiliation.
And as the numbers of the grades increased, I found, despondently,
My spirits lowered in inverse proportion, correspondently.

And they'd say these words to me [Football song]:
You're crazy, nutty, weird, insane, you're different, you're strange--
Unfit for human company unless you start to change.
We'd excise the offending parts, but don't think that they're scissorable,
And so we'll compensate by making your existence miserable.

Surely things were different in the ivied halls of college.
Where students willing-
Ly go for fulfilling
Their potentials?
The goal, I learned, was not about pursuit of thought or knowledge,
But indoctrination
and accumulation
Of credentials.

The world rejected my attempts to make a contribution.
But then one day I ran across the Ron Paul Revolution.
And then the Free State Project--and I made the move to Keene
And got the friendliest reception that I've ever seen!
The truth of individuality, I learned, unwitting:
Fittingly, you fit when you're not fit for fitful fitting!

And they say these words to me [Yankee Doodle]:
You're crazy, nutty, weird, insane, you're different, you're strange--
You're one of us, and Welcome!  Come and help us work for change.
You're totally unsuited to mundane conventionality.
Congratulations! You're a four-star Free State personality!

[Friday]

I am interested in one of the side points from the 420/MJ bill threads: is there value in "fitting in" with locals?

Of COURSE there's value in fitting in, and every single one of us does it, to one extent or another, and anyone who claims otherwise is kidding himself.  English not your native language? I'll bet you speak it when interacting with random strangers, in order to "fit in".  100 degrees outside?  I'll bet you don't go downtown naked, even though it would be cooler and more comfortable than wearing clothes.  Think your coworker is a complete douchebag who deserves a punch in the nose?  I'll bet you keep your thoughts to yourself, unless you don't take paying your bills and honoring your debts all that seriously.

Compromise with others and attempting to fit in is a necessary and normal part of human existence.  It has various labels: culture.  Fashion.  Etiquette.  Common courtesy.  The only question is how *much* will you compromise, and on what topics.

Personally, I see lots of value in trying to fit in with the people I spend most of my time with i.e. my coworkers, not a one of whom is a Free Stater, and most of whom don't even live in New Hampshire.  That doesn't mean I lie about my beliefs if asked, or keep them a secret.  I'm held in high regard for my work, and I like to think it's a tiny bit of positive advertising for libertarianism every single day, cuz I keep my word, do what I say I'll do, meet my responsibilities, and help others, usually without even needing to be asked.

When I was a teenager, I thought that radicals were the kids who *looked* radical: non-standard hair, clothes, language, blatant drug users, etc.  When I got a little older, I realized that that's not necessarily the case.  Sometimes the people who look the most radical are doing it because they're extremely insecure and crave attention or a peer group to hang out with.  Some of the most truly radical, free-spirited people, you wouldn't look twice at on the street; they're too busy being truly free to bother dying their hair, piercing their faces, yelling F- You at regular intervals (both literally and figuratively), etc. 

[Tunga]

....people come out of the rain." - The Doors

[Tunga]

Probably cause Karma to Tunga is a fluid thing. More like a flux. Dependent on the observations of others. Somebody else determines your standing in life. Get used to it. The more you expose it the worse it gets. Pain is your friend. It reminds you your still alive.

[Free libertarian]

....people come out of the rain." - The Doors

pSST (whispers to the guy singinging the wrong lyrics) "Faces", it's "faces come out of the rain."      

[Lloyd Danforth]

But, only when you're strange!