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Medieval Iceland: Proof Anarchocapitalism Works

Started by Michael Fisher, October 05, 2005, 03:40 PM NHFT

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Michael Fisher

Here's a practical application of anarchocapitalism to work toward. 8) 8) 8)? Well, it's pretty close to anarchocapitalism.? ;)

Medieval Iceland and the Absence of Government
http://www.mises.org/story/1121

by Thomas Whiston
[Posted on Wednesday, December 25, 2002]


Those who claim that government is the source of social order say that in its absence there would be violence, chaos, and a low standard of living. They cite civil wars in Africa, drug wars in South America, or even Gengis Khan in Mongolia. They claim that these things, which are actually examples of competing governments, are what life without government will produce.

Another common objection to stateless legal enforcement systems is to ask for "just one example of where it has worked."?

Medieval Iceland illustrates an actual and well-documented historical example of how a stateless legal order can work and it provides insights as to how we might create a more just and efficient society today.

...

Russell Kanning

Thanks ..... we need examples to work towards .... sometimes it is hard for people to even picture what life would be like without ever-present government. :)

Lex


Lex

Looks like after over 300 years of relatively peaceful existance it was Christianity that brought them down:
Quote
A more plausible explanation for the Free State?s decline points to the introduction of the tithe in 1096. Made possible by Iceland?s conversion to Christianity a century earlier, the tithe ? to pay church officials and maintain church buildings ? was Iceland?s first real tax. (Previous "taxes" generally turn out on closer inspection to be voluntary exchanges of fees for services.) Assessed at 1% of the payer?s property, it was also Iceland?s first graduated tax (earlier fees were one-size-fits-all), and so took in much more revenue. Most importantly, the tithe lacked a competitive element. Recall the non-territorial character of a chieftain?s jurisdiction: a chieftain?s temptations to self-aggrandizement were kept in check by the knowledge that if he acquired delusions of grandeur or charged too high a price for his services, his clients could abandon him for a rival. But the tithe was territorial; all those who lived in the vicinity of a particular church building had to pay for its upkeep, and were not at liberty to transfer their support elsewhere. The catch is that the portion of tithe revenue allocated to maintaining church buildings went not to the official church hierarchy but to the wealthy private owners (usually chieftains) of stadhir, "churchsteads," i.e., plots of land on which churches had been built. The tithe was a property tax; but chieftaincies, though marketable commodities, were exempt ? as were the churchsteads themselves, predominantly owned by chieftains. (The parliament that enacted the tithe law was of course composed entirely of chieftains.)
http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig3/long1.html

Pat McCotter


Fluff and Stuff

These articles have been around for a long time and this history is based on historical fiction so it is likely only part true.

Russell Kanning

Quote from: eukreign on October 05, 2005, 05:58 PM NHFT
Looks like after over 300 years of relatively peaceful existance it was Christianity that brought them down

Isn't that nice .... nothing like a guy forcing you to build his church ..... I didn't know til recently that most of the american colonies lived under these church taxes. :'(

AlanM


Michael Fisher

I can't believe I'd never heard about Iceland before.

Our ideas have more credibility now, IMO.  This is great.  :)

Lex


Michael Fisher

Quote from: TN-FSP on October 05, 2005, 07:13 PM NHFT
These articles have been around for a long time and this history is based on historical fiction so it is likely only part true.

Prove it.

Michael Fisher

#11
One interesting point:? it was a population migration of liberty-oriented individuals that created the society of medieval Iceland.? ?:o

Fluff and Stuff

Quote from: LeRuineur6 on October 06, 2005, 12:58 AM NHFT
Quote from: TN-FSP on October 05, 2005, 07:13 PM NHFT
These articles have been around for a long time and this history is based on historical fiction so it is likely only part true.

Prove it.

Sure.

http://www.daviddfriedman.com/Academic/Iceland/Iceland.html

"I. Introduction[2]
The purpose of this paper is to examine the legal and political institutions of Iceland from the tenth to the thirteenth centuries. They are of interest for two reasons. First, they are relatively well documented; the sagas were written by people who had lived under that set of institutions[3] and provide a detailed inside view of their workings. Legal conflicts were of great interest to the medieval Icelanders: Njal, the eponymous hero of the most famous of the sagas,[4] is not a warrior but a lawyer--"so skilled in law that no one was considered his equal." In the action of the sagas, law cases play as central a role as battles."

"3Most of the principal sagas were written down in the second half of the thirteenth century, or at the latest, the first half of the fourteenth. Prior to 1262 the institutions seem to have been relatively close to those established in the tenth century, although their workings may have been substantially different as a result of the increased concentration of wealth and power which led to their final collapse."

See the repeated use of the word sagas?

What is a saga?

http://www.reference.com/browse/wiki/Norse_saga
under the Background section-
"Most sagas of Icelanders take place in the period 930?1030, which is actually called s?gu?ld (Age of the Sagas) in Icelandic history. The sagas of kings, bishops, contemporary sagas and so on, of course have their own time frame. Most were written down between 1190 to 1320, sometimes existing as oral traditions long before, others are pure fiction, and for some we do know the sources: The author of King Sverrir's saga had met the king and used him as a source."


The debate about this has raged for years (well, it did rage, at this point it is pretty easy to tell that David was at least partly wrong and likely moreso).
http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/1931/secF9.html

http://www.daviddfriedman.com/Libertarian/My_Posts/Iceland_Anarch_FAQ2_reply.html
Here even David claims that Iceland was not anarcho-capitalist-
"I don't describe Iceland as either a utopia or anarcho-capitalist"

I hope that helped.




Ron Helwig

As far as whether or not ancient iceland was truly anarcho-capitalist or not, I don't really care. It most likely was closer to that ideal than what we have now, and was a better society for it.

So, how do we voluntarily move towards that goal?

AlanM

Quote from: rhelwig on October 06, 2005, 09:10 AM NHFT
As far as whether or not ancient iceland was truly anarcho-capitalist or not, I don't really care. It most likely was closer to that ideal than what we have now, and was a better society for it.

So, how do we voluntarily move towards that goal?

Perhaps we need a skull session limited to this concept. Many minds coming together to develop a plan.