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Medieval Iceland: Proof Anarchocapitalism Works

Started by Michael Fisher, October 05, 2005, 03:40 PM NHFT

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AlanM

It is important to keep in mind two things. 1. Everything the VG does is by unanimous consent. No majority, or super majority votes. Everyone must agree to the VG agreement, and any future changes to the agreement.
2. There can easily be more than one VG. It isn't a case of one size fits all. Competing VGs can choose to co-operate on anything they choose. Voluntarily, and with unanimous consent.

AlanM

Quote from: Scott Roth on November 02, 2005, 08:49 AM NHFT
Sorta like an intentional community, but without alot of the strings attached.

Precisely, although, if the members choose to be intentional in some way, they have the option. For instance, a VG might choose to establish a farm, or network of farms. If the only business they wish to do is farming, then you could say it is a type of intentional VG.

AlanM

What this boils down to, is the decision by the members of a VG to basically govern themselves in a system of voluntary agreement. No force. How a VG deals with the existing Gov, is entirely up to the members of the VGs. With the arbitration system, (which is the most difficult part of it, as I view it), in place, the dependence on the existing Gov is heavily reduced.

cathleeninnh

I understand the arbitration necessity and don't know enough about the pitfalls to be overly concerned with it. Will it help, though, in keeping the group itself from constantly battling over what the investment/dues are to be used for? Those are group decisions and must be unanimous after all.

I am more excited about the possibility of a barter system not based on dollars.

Cathleen


AlanM

Quote from: cathleeninnh on November 02, 2005, 09:58 AM NHFT
I understand the arbitration necessity and don't know enough about the pitfalls to be overly concerned with it. Will it help, though, in keeping the group itself from constantly battling over what the investment/dues are to be used for? Those are group decisions and must be unanimous after all.

I am more excited about the possibility of a barter system not based on dollars.

Cathleen



I see the dues/investment as a simple mechanism agreed to at the start, and kept constant. Say, for instance a VG establishes an initial, as well as a continuing investment requirement. It could simply say that the investment money would be used to buy commodities. Any profit made from the purchase and resale of the commodities could be divided amongst the members based on the amount of investment. The investment can be a very handy tool to require compliance with the arbitration process; no compliance, lose your investment, or a portion of it.
The whole idea of the arbitration process is to eliminate the typical State Punishment idea, and turn it into a system of recompense. 

cathleeninnh

It makes perfect sense to arbitrate grievances and potential loss of investment is a good incentive. But if investment is just that, an investment, then a voluntary exit would be the return of the investment and appropriate interest?

Avoids bickering but adds regulatory concerns.

Cathleen

AlanM

Quote from: cathleeninnh on November 02, 2005, 10:26 AM NHFT
It makes perfect sense to arbitrate grievances and potential loss of investment is a good incentive. But if investment is just that, an investment, then a voluntary exit would be the return of the investment and appropriate interest?

Avoids bickering but adds regulatory concerns.

Cathleen


Well, to me it beats court litigation. Plus, it places the incentive on recompense to the victim.

Michael Fisher

#52
First, or simultaneously, we may need to create a very short list of unenforcable "guidelines" for a tuath in an anarchocapitalist society so people forming a tuath have a clear idea of how this will work.? Do not be mistaken by what I just said, there should be no authority above that of the individual.

Some ideas:
-The highest authority is the individual person.
-Individuals and organizations are only responsible to abide by voluntary agreements.
-Something about arbitration of disputes after a violation of ZAP.

cathleeninnh

Do I have the picture right?

Investment gets you entrance into The Group. Membership allows you individual voluntary participation in a periodically updated group of mutual benefit programs. The only mandatory participation is the arbitration/restitution grievance resolution program.

Cathleen

AlanM

Quote from: cathleeninnh on November 02, 2005, 10:57 AM NHFT
Do I have the picture right?

Investment gets you entrance into The Group. Membership allows you individual voluntary participation in a periodically updated group of mutual benefit programs. The only mandatory participation is the arbitration/restitution grievance resolution program.

Cathleen

Any rule or regulation that the members of the VG agree to must be abided by. Again, the rules/regs were agreed to unanimously.

polyanarch

Gee!

How can we ever have a police state without police and rules and ORDER! 

You guys are missing the boat! (or bus)

AlanM

Quote from: LeRuineur6 on November 02, 2005, 10:56 AM NHFT
First, or simultaneously, we may need to create a very short list of unenforcable "guidelines" for a truath in an anarchocapitalist society so people forming a truath have a clear idea of how this will work.? Do not be mistaken by what I just said, there should be no authority above that of the individual.

Some ideas:
-The highest authority is the individual person.
-Individuals and organizations are only responsible to abide by voluntary agreements.
-Something about arbitration of disputes after a violation of ZAP.

Good, Mike.
The basis of a truath is individual freedom. Voluntary cooperation. No force. Unanimous consent of all rules, agreements, making it completely voluntary.
A truath can be large or small, simple or complex, but it is based on voluntary agreement.

AlanM

One thing must be stressed. The rules/agreements of a VG/truath are inviolate, and must be abided by. Individual members may form agreements amongst themselves, that do not apply to others, only those involved in the secondary agreements.

cathleeninnh

I'm having trouble thinking what rules there would be outside of the arbitration system and the participation/investment requirements.

Cathleen

Michael Fisher

#59
I agree, Alan, a tuath can be very simple or it can be complex, and the structure of this free society will continuously adapt, be completely dynamic, and belong entirely to the living generation.  :)

Because, in reality, voluntary action is inherently necessary in any binding contract (an "agreement" implies voluntary acceptance), there will be no monopoly of force, no "nation", and thus no national constitution, laws, congress, president, army, or anything else.

A tuath could theoretically recreate most state and federal laws in this state and country, but it would have to adapt because NOBODY in their right mind would voluntarily join such a tuath.   ;D

As Sorens once said, even an anarchosocialist mutual aid community could be created within a free society.  The way I see it, this is true, and capitalism could be banned in that community as long as all property owners in the community are in that tuath and agree with it.  As soon as one individual property owner left the tuath, the ban on capitalism would no longer apply on his property.  With sufficient brainwashing, such a strange community could survive for a long time, though we all know it wouldn't.  ;)

True freedom means even allowing people to do things everyone disagrees with, as long as they do not victimize anyone against their will.

In addition to creating a tuath, some of us will need to create a court with a very specific mission, vision, and business plan.  This court will sell intra-tuath and inter-tuath contract arbitration and victim compensation services.  How this court will be structured is up to us and the free market will determine its fate.  We could have judge-, trial-, and council-based services that both parties agree upon.

Those who are not in a tuath can sell their restitution rights to any willing tuath, individual, or organization.  If someone refuses to agree to  arbitration service, then things will become slightly more complex, but it will be manageable.

Someone should also create a reputation management system (an online system is optional) for tuaths, courts, and individuals.  Any individual, tuath, or court can choose a unique identifier which they use each day and by which their reputations will be judged.  eBay has already done this for financial transactions between business and individuals, so it cannot be too difficult to adapt their structure to ANY contract or other meaningful event of an individual, tuath, or court.

Of course, someone can always start over with a new unique identifier, but NO reputation is a bad thing, so there will be incentives to manage an existing reputation.  :)

There's so much to think about!