"libertarian flash"

[Tom Sawyer]

I've been involved in libertarian causes and efforts for almost thirty years... perhaps the biggest obstacle to advancing the cause are libertarians themselves. They often annoy me and I'm their ally. The real test for me is if I can explain the situation to a non kool-aid drinking friend or relative. Some, such as Lauren or Russell's imprisonment, gained sympathy and moved people toward our cause. Others I can't even figure out myself what the fuck they are doing.

Typically (but not always) a single male with no one that depends on him for support. Has all the answers, although 2 years ago the answers were different.

Examples of
"libertarian flash"
When talking to someone that is concerned for what will happen to poor children... "Fuck em let em starve!"

"I'm purer than thou." He says with a smug smirk on his face, as he prepares to file his 1040 form.

They can't seem to find enough evil in the world to attempt to correct... "Hey you minarchist ally, let me show you how you are evil." As he drives away you can see the fading Ron Paul sticker on his car.

[Kat Kanning]

When talking to someone that is concerned for what will happen to poor children... "Fuck em let em starve!"

Not disagreeing with your rant here, but this particular response I see as part of a progression in "thinking".  We, epecially those of us who went thru public school, were bombarded with such pro-government, "oh, it's for the children" muck, that I think we tend to over-react to the other extreme in an attempt to break the conditioning.   Does that make sense?  Doesn't make it a good thing to do, but maybe understandable in some small way.

[Praeteridiot]

Kool-Aid quenches thirst and has enriched vitamins.  When people drink it their lives are improved by  their thirst being quenched and they'll waste away without vitamins

Why do you want people to die?

Unsarcastically, though, I commiserate with a lot of what you said.  So many flashers seem to totally forget the fact that they themselves had to take their own walk to Canossa to sort out their own contradictory beliefs; and likely still have some to sort.  Being called evil (or minarchist or statist, which is just a epithet in some circles) didn't help them at that time, but for some reason it'll help the person they're calling evil. 

[Tom Sawyer]

As opposed to...

I see a future where the money that the government won't be forcibly taking from people will be available to help truly needy kids. etc.

Instead some people decide to show their flash by taking the diametrically opposed  position.

I know that my family has drifted away and I suspect it is the same for others.

When talking to someone that is concerned for what will happen to poor children... "Fuck em let em starve!"

Not disagreeing with your rant here, but this particular response I see as part of a progression in "thinking".  We, epecially those of us who went thru public school, were bombarded with such pro-government, "oh, it's for the children" muck, that I think we tend to over-react to the other extreme in an attempt to break the conditioning.   Does that make sense?  Doesn't make it a good thing to do, but maybe understandable in some small way.

[Tom Sawyer]

Unsarcastically, though, I commiserate with a lot of what you said.  So many flashers seem to totally forget the fact that they themselves had to take their own walk to Canossa to sort out their own contradictory beliefs; and likely still have some to sort.  Being called evil (or minarchist or statist, which is just a epithet in some circles) didn't help them at that time, but for some reason it'll help the person they're calling evil.

I have seen an orthodoxy develop...
I assume some of it is just that people often, when they first get into a new idea, can be annoying with their presentation... I know I have been guilty of that.

[Tom Sawyer]

We, epecially those of us who went thru public school, were bombarded with such pro-government, "oh, it's for the children" muck, that I think we tend to over-react to the other extreme in an attempt to break the conditioning.   Does that make sense?  Doesn't make it a good thing to do, but maybe understandable in some small way.

In addition Kat... You are someone that tries to positively influence the world around you. You have more action than words, and are attempting to live the change you would like to see. 

I wouldn't be involved if not for you and Russell's efforts.

[AntonLee]

I've been involved in libertarian causes and efforts for almost thirty years... perhaps the biggest obstacle to advancing the cause are libertarians themselves. They often annoy me and I'm their ally. The real test for me is if I can explain the situation to a non kool-aid drinking friend or relative. Some, such as Lauren or Russell's imprisonment, gained sympathy and moved people toward our cause. Others I can't even figure out myself what the fuck they are doing.

Typically (but not always) a single male with no one that depends on him for support. Has all the answers, although 2 years ago the answers were different.

Examples of
"libertarian flash"
When talking to someone that is concerned for what will happen to poor children... "Fuck em let em starve!"

"I'm purer than thou." He says with a smug smirk on his face, as he prepares to file his 1040 form.

They can't seem to find enough evil in the world to attempt to correct... "Hey you minarchist ally, let me show you how you are evil." As he drives away you can see the fading Ron Paul sticker on his car.

I'm guilty of pretty much all of this.  I don't remember ever telling people who are concerned with poor kids to "let them starve" but I have often questioned what those people have done themselves for poor kids that do exist under the current paradigm.

I do consider the position I take to be the most peaceful, and I often become frustrated with the 'peace and love' statist friends who play the grateful dead, wear tyedye and preach peace and collect their government checks and slap Obama stickers on their cars.  I'm often on the forums, speaking my mind, and in the context of the discussions I'm positive I come across abrasive to others.  I have tried to work on this or to keep quiet.  Sometimes things really get to me and it shows.  I often point out in libertarian circles the problems I have with the philosophy of minarchy, even though I was once a minarchist and a statist.  Of course, this is tied to the internet.  I can't remember ever being anything but cordial to minarchist allies/friends.  I can't say the same about statists.  Lately I've been trying to point out behaviors that are evil as opposed to the people.  I've realized that it's the behavior I have a problem with, and I'm not the best at trying to express my opinion in a manner as to successfully persuade them to my side.

I'm a single male with all kinds of answers and no one to rely on me yet.  I fit your description.  I understand how it can be counter-productive to the efforts of others who are doing what they can.  I speak online and have done little to act on my beliefs.  The people around me have become understanding of the fact that I'm "confused" "crazy" "insane" and "evil"

I appreciate your post because it is one of the many things lately that has gotten me to stop and think about what I say and do before I "flash" or to just keep quiet. 

[Tom Sawyer]

Hanging out with people that understand your tension over these things is one of the good things about connecting here.

Humility is a rare and admirable trait.       My only real flaw is my modesty. 

[jerryswife]

I agree that some libertarians enjoy riling up the masses rather than persuading them.  Sometimes though it is almost irresistible to do so.  I was talking to a nun the other day and she was a huge Obama supporter, so I asked her why.  She said "because he is a Democrat."  I replied that that was insufficient reason to like someone, what was it about him specifically that she liked.  She said something about he inspired her.  I then rattled off a number of the promises he had made that I actually would have liked him to keep such as end the war, transparency etc.  none of which he had done so I asked for an instance of anything that he had done that was admirable.  She started in on healthcare; being a doctor, I explained how the plan would make things far worse and how the free-market solutions were much better, how government has screwed up everything it ever did.  She had no cogent reply and started yelling "You're an anarchist, you're an anarchist" as if that was the worst possible thing a person could be.  I said, "actually, I am more of a minarchist, and proud of it."

[Kat Kanning]

Interesting reaction!

[Tom Sawyer]

She had no cogent reply and started yelling "You're an anarchist, you're an anarchist" as if that was the worst possible thing a person could be.  I said, "actually, I am more of a minarchist, and proud of it."

Maybe she meant You're the Anti-Christ! 

[toowm]

You left out the "macho"!


It's Libertarian Macho Flash!!

[John]

... perhaps the biggest obstacle to advancing the cause are libertarians themselves. They often annoy me and I'm their ally.

Very interesting, Tom. I've also been noticing this for a very long time and have lately been mentioning it. We must be on the same wavelength because I have been thinking about starting a similar thread. My thread might have been a bit more inclusive however.

I think that the libertarian "macho" flash thing is just the tip of the iceberg. It sits there out in the open --- on display even --- but, the problem is much, much, bigger.

The problem is so big that I sometimes wonder if it can be overcome. I know it can be.
I think there is only one way and I think you know that way. It is "Closer to the Heart."

[Russell Kanning]

kat flashed me today

i have been accused of being a libertarian
macho
and that a do libertarian macho flashing

i also am considered not to be a libertarian by others
not macho enough or just a wimp


i  even have and might do more soon ..... cooperating with the evil government

hey roger ..... if you are not ready to name names .... then anton, me and the boys at the lib, macho, flash group are going to write you a very sternly worded letter

[Tom Sawyer]

 

I have a hard time feeling menaced by the Cardinal... I think that is one of his attributes.

A certain purity of motive makes a big difference in my opinion. So seem to be more focused on attention seeking for ego purposes...