• Welcome to New Hampshire Underground.
 

News:

Please log in on the special "login" page, not on any of these normal pages. Thank you, The Procrastinating Management

"Let them march all they want, as long as they pay their taxes."  --Alexander Haig

Main Menu

You're not going to get laid. Inspired by Rogers Libertain Flash thread.

Started by porcupine kate, November 18, 2009, 09:59 AM NHFT

Previous topic - Next topic

dalebert


JAC

Seth,

I was just curious as to the meaning of your post.  Glad we agree on that.  Thanks. :)

porcupine kate

Quote from: Ron Helwig on November 25, 2009, 07:50 PM NHFT
Just to get back to the actual subject, I would like to add:

As someone who took Kate's advice willingly, I got laid!

This "customer" is very satisfied, and recommends those who might want more than just fleeting flings with fascists to ask her for personal help.

;D  Thank you Ron.   I appreciate the fact that you got the point and put it to good use.

porcupine kate

Seth, Joe and Tammy have been my friends for years.  I know It is crazy to think that I have managed to maintain friendships with all three of them and Lloyd for years. 

Honestly Joe I can't figure out why you don't like Tammy to the extent you do.  My solution has been to stay out of the mess between the two of you.  I have never had problem with either of you and I choose to stay out of the mess.  I will continue to stay out of it.  It makes my life simpler.





porcupine kate

Quote from: JAC on November 24, 2009, 09:42 PM NHFT
Quote from: porcupine kate on November 18, 2009, 09:59 AM NHFT
This is for all the young single guys out there with the self righteous libertarian flash.  This particularly applies to the guys who want their liberty right now with little or no respect for others property, social norms and customs.

You're not going to to get laid going on like that.

If you do you'll have a very hard time keeping a nice girl around.
Kate,

There is a big difference between "getting laid" and "keeping a nice girl around."  Can you tell us which one the topic of your post is?  If you're saying men who defy social norms, defy social customs, and have no respect for others' property (all three of which are mutually exclusive, by the way - they are not necessarily co-dependent; and are subjective, as implied by the words "normative" and "custom") can not get laid then that is simply a false statement.

I could find you tons of people I've met in Keene or in California who spray-paint buildings, skateboard over private property, dress awfully, and care little for their outward appearance, who still manage to get laid by girls who are into those kinds of things.  For some women, "disrespect for private property" is a "norm" for their "social group."  Not saying those are the women I associate myself with, just saying they're out there.  They are nice girls, in my book, just not my type.


Or are you saying that men who defy social norms, or social customs, or have no respect for private property (again, three different concepts which can be found alone or not at all in varying degrees in different individuals, thus making understanding of your argument rather difficult) can not "keep a nice girl around"?

Well, if you mean your definition of "nice", then probably not, Kate.  But your definition clearly does not apply to others.  I don't know why you think that men who "defy [your] social norms" can't get laid by women who have different social norms than you; or why those same men could not find a "nice girl", who is nice as they believe the word to exist, to stick around for a little while.



If, however, you are saying that the libertarian women you know typically want "x, y, and z" qualities as you have defined them in your opening post; and that libertarian men you know typically do not have those qualities and are, thus, rendered unattractive by the libertarian women you know, then this post could be helpful to said men who do not have said qualities but want to have sex with said libertarian women.

However, you have not cited who these "libertarian women" are, or who these "libertarian men" are.  If the men you speak of do not want to have sex with the women you know, then your defined course of action to reach said goal becomes pointless - seeing as how they do not want to reach said goal.  Thus, why should they adapt your "social norms", since they are not conducive to their ends?  Perhaps they are happy, instead, "getting laid" by non-libertarians, or by getting a "nice non-libertarian girl" to "stick around."


Overall, your post was too vague.  While I do appreciate the thought behind it, because I think I know the type of men you are talking about and I understand you are trying to help said men; you should have named specific men and kept these facts in mind:

1) You know the man wants to be with a libertarian woman.
2) You know this libertarian woman and know what she wants in a man.
3) The libertarian man does not possess attractive characteristics as defined by specific libertarian woman.
4) Thus, libertarian man should change his characteristics so as to obtain sex or long-term-relationship (depending on the goals of the individuals involved) from specific libertarian woman.

You did not define any of those.  You just vaguely said "you guys" here and there and talk about how "you guys" are pretty much "assholes" and "socially awkward."  Who is "you guys"?


Those are my only objections.  I think your post would have much more affect if it were directed specifically towards the men who, despite their attempts to get laid by libertarian women, fail at said attempts due to their lack of "preferable" characteristics.  In which case, you should either name names on this forum and cite examples of their bad behavior (which would, in my opinion be a awful idea), or you should talk to those people specifically in private (better idea).  And you should be sure that they do want libertarian women, and not just assume they do - and you should know what these libertarian women actually want, and not just assume you do.

Just some suggestions.  I think the idea of a "charm school" for said men is a great idea, and you might be the person to put something like that together Kate, since you clearly have the motivation and care for men who simply "don't know what the hell they're doing."  I mean, if you didn't care about their failed attempts to get laid then you wouldn't bother.  So I think said men may appreciate that.

I just think a vague post on an internet forum does not achieve the ends you want in any satisfactory way.  Clearly, this entire thread has just further alienated people, as now Seth and Curtis are arguing and Seth has ostracized him - thus making this post fail in its original intent.

If you want to bring people together I suggest you talk to these men in private and help them out.  Because even the specifics in your post were rendered useless by your failure to mention whom they specifically apply to.


In Liberty,
Andrew Carroll

Andrew you have made some very good points.  I have been talking to guys privately for years.  I have been listening to women horrified by some of the behavior they see on a regular basis.  I also see countless failed attempts to introduce someone to the ideas of liberty due to a bad delivery.  Those people are lost to us.
I am not ready to write a book on the subject yet.   It does have potential though.  I don't wish be the porcupine miss manners.  I'm sure many people reading think I'm a nag already.  Why would I make that worse.

I choose the title of the thread to get attention.  I also forget that there are lots of people that go out of their way to look for hook up sex with out a strong connection between them and their partner.  I have never been one of those people. 

My whole point of the thread was to draw attention to the lack of social skills and how they can affect activism and your dating life.  I have known people for years who have never made that connection or when they do they wish they had done it sooner.  I have been alive twice as long as you (yes I am that old :tiphat:) and have seen this play out time and again.  It is not just pro liberty activists. I have seen it in other social circles.  The difference with the pro liberty people is that they are trying to change people's minds on how they view the ever increasing encroachment of government and how life would be better with less to no government.  The lack of communication skills and social graces is going to make it harder to connect with people weather you are trying to date or reach out to people as an activist. 
Kate




How is it that all but one lady on two forums and all my emails that read the initial post not only got the point but also thanked/congratulated me on the post.  Conversely a quite a few guys either didn't get it or had a ton of questions.

KBCraig

I only have a little bit of input here, being happily married.

First, the comment that "getting laid" and "keeping a nice girl around" are different things is not only true, the two things can be mutually exclusive.

My experience from back in the single guy days, when I wanted a "nice girl" to "keep around" more than I just wanted to get laid, was that nice guys finished last. They were the ones the girls came to to cry about how the bad guy had just treated her like dirt -- after they slept together.

Recumbent ReCycler

I only read the first 2 pages so far, but I don't have much time at the moment and wanted to comment.  I thought the first post was well written and the thoughts in it parallel my own for the most part, the difference being that I hadn't thought of it in the context of getting laid or not, but in the context of getting along with others and helping others to understand your point of view without alienating them.  I too have observed far too much anti-social behavior among some members of our community, and while I would estimate that a majority of it comes from male members, I have also observed some of this behavior from a few women (who I will not name) in the community.  I've also noticed that some people get downright rude when they drink, and if alcohol has that effect on your personality, you should probably avoid it altogether.  Some people are not fun to be around when they're drinking.
I believe that one of the keys to persuading someone to adopt your point of view is listening to them first then discussing their thoughts and comparing them to your own in a polite manner.  Granted, sarcasm can be a useful tool if used properly and some people won't listen to reason and need a verbal boot-to-the-head, but those people, I believe, are a relatively small minority.

MTPorcupine3

Quote from: KBCraig on November 27, 2009, 09:57 PM NHFT
My experience from back in the single guy days, when I wanted a "nice girl" to "keep around" more than I just wanted to get laid, was that nice guys finished last. They were the ones the girls came to to cry about how the bad guy had just treated her like dirt -- after they slept together.

And sometimes she'll go back to the bad guy after crying on your shoulder about why she left him.

error

On the supposed topic of this thread, I only want to say this:

If you consider yourself a liberty activist, consider carefully:

What is your goal? What are you trying to accomplish?

Is what you're doing helping you reach that goal?

I would urge every person whose actual goal is to convince people to adopt liberty to go hunt down a copy of Harry Browne's (yes, HIM) "The Secret to Selling Anything."

In case you can't find a copy, here's the secret: Find out what people want and help them get it!

KBCraig

Quote from: error on November 30, 2009, 10:35 PM NHFT
In case you can't find a copy, here's the secret: Find out what people want and help them get it!

Bacon. And sex. Followed by more bacon.

anthonybpugh

Quote from: KBCraig on November 27, 2009, 09:57 PM NHFT
I only have a little bit of input here, being happily married.

First, the comment that "getting laid" and "keeping a nice girl around" are different things is not only true, the two things can be mutually exclusive.

My experience from back in the single guy days, when I wanted a "nice girl" to "keep around" more than I just wanted to get laid, was that nice guys finished last. They were the ones the girls came to to cry about how the bad guy had just treated her like dirt -- after they slept together.

I think a lot of people believe that being a nice guy means they have to act like a wimp.  A lot of other guys think that the opposite means being an jerk.    There is a way to not be either an jerk or a wimp. 

KBCraig

Quote from: anthonybpugh on November 30, 2009, 11:14 PM NHFT
Quote from: KBCraig on November 27, 2009, 09:57 PM NHFT
I only have a little bit of input here, being happily married.

First, the comment that "getting laid" and "keeping a nice girl around" are different things is not only true, the two things can be mutually exclusive.

My experience from back in the single guy days, when I wanted a "nice girl" to "keep around" more than I just wanted to get laid, was that nice guys finished last. They were the ones the girls came to to cry about how the bad guy had just treated her like dirt -- after they slept together.

I think a lot of people believe that being a nice guy means they have to act like a wimp.  A lot of other guys think that the opposite means being an jerk.    There is a way to not be either an jerk or a wimp.

At the age range in question for most people who haven't already partnered up (late teens to mid/late 20s), there is an unfortunate trend to mistake "bad boy" for "real man". And it happens on both sides of the gender line.

ny2nh

Quote from: KBCraig on November 30, 2009, 10:50 PM NHFT
Quote from: error on November 30, 2009, 10:35 PM NHFT
In case you can't find a copy, here's the secret: Find out what people want and help them get it!

Bacon. And sex. Followed by more bacon.

ha ha - that's perfect!

Sam A. Robrin

Quote from: KBCraig on December 01, 2009, 02:07 AM NHFT
At the age range in question for most people who haven't already partnered up (late teens to mid/late 20s), there is an unfortunate trend to mistake "bad boy" for "real man". And it happens on both sides of the gender line.
In my experience, the masculine equivalent of "bad boy" is "airhead."

cathleeninnh