You're not going to get laid. Inspired by Rogers Libertain Flash thread.

[FTL_Ian]

Are you referring to the gangsta-looking white boys that crookedly wear those silly flat-brimmed hats?

[Sovereign Curtis]

Are you referring to the gangsta-looking white boys that crookedly wear those silly flat-brimmed hats?

Yes. That is a Yo-Boy.

[FTL_Ian]

Are you referring to the gangsta-looking white boys that crookedly wear those silly flat-brimmed hats?

Yes. That is a Yo-Boy.

(lol @ imagining you dressing like that)   

[jerryswife]

What men don't want--but usually get--is someone who wants to latch on, drain them of every aspect that initially attracted her, take what they can get materially, then move on to the next sucker and repeat the process.

That is rather cynical.  There are lots of women out there who do NOT want to change the person they "get," are not out for material gain, and do nt want a "sucker."  If that is your experience, I would guess the problem lies in your choices of which women to date.  If you go after the "Barbie" types who spend their time at the gym and beauty salons and the mall, well, d'uh.

[Redchrome]

Yes, you've mentioned that the title was an attempt to garner more views, but I'm against that sort of thing, so I'll continue to address the subject raised in the title.

This is an example of being deliberately dense. I can't think of a more polite way to put it; other than to point out that I'm exceedingly guilty of it myself. I think some of the ways that people express themselves with words are poorly considered, and so I've been known to ignore what I believe to be the meaning and concentrate on what is said in an attempt to point out to the speaker how poor their choice of words is. It irritates me very much when people use words inappropriately; but I also know that if I mean to communicate effectively with people (and trying to convey the benefits of liberty to them requires the most effective communication), I need to act smarter and meet them at their level of communication rather than expect them to rise to mine.

One may try to encourage people to rise to your level of communication, and one may encourage people to become more libertarian; but it is exceedingly difficult to do both at the same time. To bring people as far along the liberty path as you can as quickly as you can, you need to communicate with them as easily as possible. This is one of the 'social norms' that Kate mentioned in her original post, and implied that following them would be beneficial in many cases.

[Sam A. Robrin]

That is rather cynical.  There are lots of women out there who do NOT want to change the person they "get," are not out for material gain, and do nt want a "sucker."

Precisely why I qualified the statement with "usually."

If that is your experience, I would guess the problem lies in your choices of which women to date.

Ah, yes--just as women who are abused by their husbands have only themselves to blame?  Except that that's (rightly) dismissed as blame-the-victim thinking, and excoriated.  The very suggestion is exemplary of the sort of nonsense promulgated by so-called "feminism," whose major concern was clearly to rail against all double standards inconvenient to women, while retaining any that were to their advantage.

If you go after the "Barbie" types who spend their time at the gym and beauty salons and the mall, well, d'uh.

That you would immediately jump to this single scenario to the exclusion of any other shows that you have no knowledge of me or understanding of the point I was making.

[And KATE--This is precisely the sort of fight I was talking about expecting over in the other forum!]

[thinkliberty]

Ha ha awesome song Sam.  Where I can find the melody?

I also noticed--after writing it--that it's one of the songs that can be sung to "Gilligan's Island," "Amazing Grace," "Pop Goes the Weasel" . . .  I have a list of 40 or so.

I am going to try to get my girlfriend to sing it.   While I play my ukulele to the "Gilligan's Island" theme song.  lol

[porcupine kate]

Ha ha awesome song Sam.  Where I can find the melody?

I also noticed--after writing it--that it's one of the songs that can be sung to "Gilligan's Island," "Amazing Grace," "Pop Goes the Weasel" . . .  I have a list of 40 or so.

I am going to try to get my girlfriend to sing it.   While I play my ukulele to the "Gilligan's Island" theme song.  lol

You could film it and submit it to Soap Box Idol for Porc Fest 2010.

[Seamas]

I agree with Ian that personal responsibility is not a male vs. female issue.  Still, as a counter point, I've seen much more financial irresponsibility from women who seek to get a man to pay for their irresponsible ways than the other way around.  Times are changing but I've also observed that a stay at home dad (for example) still gets all kinds of crap that a stay at home mom would never have to endure.  Obviously, these are comments about society in general rather than the experiences of the small number of women who are single libertarians in NH.

With respect to PorcFest 2009, I'm sorry that you did not have a good time.  My girlfriend and I had a great time and enjoyed people coming by and offering them our hospitality (beers, a seat around the fire, good conversation, etc.).  Maybe some people just assumed that every site was a free-for-all rather than first saying "hi", introducing themselves, telling their story, and hanging out.  Or maybe they thought that you were part of the cook off.  My first Porc Fest was tough because I had a tiny site on a corner and was woken up repeatedly by vehicles that I was scared would run me over.  I hope that you will give it another try and pick an out of the way site, as I did, in the future.

Finally, I really agree with your personal responsibly message.  I see taking care of oneself as the bare minimum - and for me it amounts to seeing someone as an adult rather than an overgrown child.  Once that bar has been cleared, I look for people to become secure enough to engage in charity.  With respect to selling; I suspect that it's no accident that the most successful religions base their much of their outreach on charity. 

According to population data, there are 2,000 more women than men in Keene.  That's over 54% of the population.  (Though, they could all be over 65.    )

That aside, certainly some of Kate's advice is good for anyone, male or female.  Also some things she referenced, I wonder what she's getting at?  Kate, when you said you see things that are "destructive" as far as activism is concerned, to what are you referring?

Ian.  Some of the destructive behavior I have seen is people yelling and insulting each other over a way something was done.  From My view in Porc Central it appears we have a growing divide between in system and out of system people.  This is coming from both sides.  It kills me that a bunch of people feel offended and that they are being told what they are doing is all wrong.  This is all coming from pro liberty people.  People also complain that socially we are become cliquish like high schools.  I see it happening and it is only going to hurt us in the long run. 

You don't have to like everyone.   I do think you need to be polite to each other.  I do think bad behavior is encouraged to an extent in each social circle.  I think we have a lot of growing up to do.  We are suffering from a large group of individualist, anti social type forming a rather large social group.  Most people move here and encounter a group of peers for the first time.  Quite a few of them don't know what to do and they fumble about and don't realize they are stepping on toes.  Everyone is trying to figure out how to fit in right away and often times they annoy the people around them local and pro liberty a like.  If you are annoying the people around you, you are going to have a harder time getting things done. We are not doing a good job of attracting  people with a happy pleasant message.  I see a bunch of people trying to show everyone the government is bad and their rules are stupid.  It is a good an worthy goal.  Doing it while cursing in front of small children, at a family event may not be the most effective way to gain local support.  Outreach should try to reach out to people not just offend them before they can see your point. 

I also see a need to encourage more personal responsibility.  Not only for your own life but the property of others.  Porc Fest 2009 was a glaring example of this.  Having people tripping over you tent lines repeatedly in the night because they are too drunk or lazy to walk on the path drove me nuts.  Having people show up at my campsite uninvited and want to be feed or use our equipment just because we thought to bring it.  I am not part of the free lunch project.  Having equipment disappear over the weekend wasn't fun either.  Bad handling of alcohol, drugs, firearms, just being rude is not enjoying liberty it is being not irresponsible, reckless and dangerous to others.

In the long run I think we need to use personal responsibility to show people that it is a better way to live and we need to build alternatives to government.  We have ways to show governments are bad.  What do we have to show people that is a viable replacement to government.  We can't win hearts and minds until we can show them a better way.  Most of the activism doesn't capitalize on showing people a better way.  We are showing people what is wrong government but what is the point if we can't fix it or show people a better way with out it.

Message is good our delivery needs  lot of work.
Kate

[ny2nh]

With respect to PorcFest 2009, I'm sorry that you did not have a good time.  My girlfriend and I had a great time and enjoyed people coming by and offering them our hospitality (beers, a seat around the fire, good conversation, etc.).  Maybe some people just assumed that every site was a free-for-all rather than first saying "hi", introducing themselves, telling their story, and hanging out.  Or maybe they thought that you were part of the cook off.  My first Porc Fest was tough because I had a tiny site on a corner and was woken up repeatedly by vehicles that I was scared would run me over.  I hope that you will give it another try and pick an out of the way site, as I did, in the future.

Ha - I hardly think Kate said she didn't have a good time at PF. Having camped on the same site(s) as Kate, I know exactly what she was talking about. Yes, we had 3 or 4 entries in the cook-off (Kate's sister won!) - she wasn't talking about people at the cook-off. How and why would anyone presume all sites were some sort of free for all? If so, this is exactly the type of behavior Kate was getting at in her initial post. We're not talking people who wander by at night while people are sitting by a fire having a couple of beers - but people who came right up to our tables while we were eating breakfast. And the tripping over the tents was getting old - especially since there was really no reason for people to not just stay on the pathway instead of cutting thru our site(s)....especially after being asked not to do so. Things that should be just common courtesy seem to be completely foreign to some.

[SethCohn]

Hmm, someone just deleted some nasty posts.

The author of said nasty posts know who they are, and suffice it to say, they've showed their true colors.

Kate's points seem to have missed the mark, but then again, the target audience isn't really listening.

It's pretty clear the true split in the community continues to be those with social skills and those without.  Many of those without continue to insist they don't need them or want them.  Fine, but don't expect to get along with those of us who do.

BTW, that split overlaps with all of the other philosophical "splits" (minarch/anarch, insystem/out, Libertarian/Republican etc) and makes the task of education/change harder for all of us.  Of course, only those with social skills care about that task.
Those without just say "fuck em, damn sheeple anyway."

Kate, great post.

[Sovereign Curtis]

they've showed their true colors.

Shown

[SethCohn]

they've showed their true colors.

Shown

That's fine.  You can do/think/act whatever you want.  Just don't do it near me or mine.  Consider yourself unwelcome to interact, attend parties, etc.  If the "voluntaryist" solution to things is a reputation system, consider yourself to have been put on the shitlist, and shunned.

[Sovereign Curtis]

don't do it near me or mine.

Which are "yours"?

Consider yourself unwelcome to interact, attend parties, etc.  If the "voluntaryist" solution to things is a reputation system, consider yourself to have been put on the shitlist, and shunned.

For whom do you speak?

[MaineShark]

I'll say the same thing that someone decided to delete, as close as I can replicate it: Tammy is a perfect example of someone who can't seem to engage in even basic human decency towards others.  She epitomizes the complaints that Kate made in the initial post.

Joe