The Georgists

[Ron Helwig]

the other states are going to have sales and income tax - why would you move?

Freeloaders don't have income. At least reportable income. You arn't listening are you? THE FREE CASH.

The cash is better for them because they can buy drugs and alcohol and other crap that freeloaders spend their money on.

Who's not listening? What free cash?

In a geo-libertarian society (like Hankster is talking about), the land tax is used for legitimate government purposes, not socialist giveaways.

It is much easier to keep the size of one tax small than it is several.

If you are a renter in a geo-libertarian society, the government has no need to even know you exist (unless you are a criminal or a voter).

[DC]

Hankster is Bill G. , or Greenbacks. I am aware of the Geo-libertarian society. He came up with his own version that has all the land tax going equaly to all the people in the society and none to government.

[BillG]

the other states are going to have sales and income tax - why would you move?

Freeloaders don't have income. At least reportable income. You arn't listening are you? THE FREE CASH.

The cash is better for them because they can buy drugs and alcohol and other crap that freeloaders spend their money on.

right...you are trying to change the terms here - the freeloaders are getting social services in the state that you want to move to which is funded by sales and income tax.

they move to NH and get the economic rent but no social services - there is no NET gain.

so which would you rather have no income and sales tax - a blantant violation of labor-based property right that no libertarian can support or sharing of the economic rent which does not violate the landowner's labor-based property rights and UPHOLDS the excluded's (immediately for tenants and in the future for buyers).

the landowner does not:

1. physical produce the land
2. does not contribute to the land value it is a positive externality
3. in a pure rent sharing scenario there would be no purchase price to land.

[BillG]

In a geo-libertarian society (like Hankster is talking about), the land tax is used for legitimate government purposes, not socialist givea

I am of the geo-libertarian school that believes in the citizens dividend.

the reason why is that if you make a principle stand that the economic rent from private enclosure beyond Locke's proviso is owned in common, then giving it to the government for any services is akin to treating the economic rent as collectively owned rather than owned in common.

the money raised for a minarchist government would come from a head tax while everything else from user's fees...

[BillG]

Tolstoy was actually a Christian anarchist.

That's a tad different from wanting a government beurocracy to take and money from one party to give to another.

if Tolstoy was a georgist and I am called a socialist doesn't that make Tolstoy a socialist and not an anarchist?

[Dreepa]

Nah just Foolish.

Stop dreaming of Utopia.

[BillG]

Nah just Foolish.

Stop dreaming of Utopia.

if equal liberty is utopia the let's have a little utopia please!

[Michael Fisher]

Guys, please don't give in to the communists.? Rather than moving stuff around and moderating things, I just want to ignore the trolls and ask them to leave.  Of course, you can do whatever you want - it's not my forum.


Wrong audience, Hank.? With all due respect, you are on the wrong forum.? I do not know anyone here that cares about your theories at all.? This is a very poor place to promote your ideas, and you're just annoying me and interrupting unrelated conversations with your ideas.

I don't like it when we ban people or move, lock, or delete threads.? I prefer that trolls leave of their own free will.

Greens have been more active on the FSP forums than anyone else and have gained nothing from it but endless debate.? You guys practically live there and it's absolutely pathetic.? I do not want you to destroy these forums like you and the other greens have done to the FSP forums.? Please leave.

[Ron Helwig]

Guys, please don't give in to the communists.

This from the guy that attacks one of the few things (the Liberty Dollar) finding some success against the leviathon. Ha!
This from the guy that seems to adore that socialist Ghandi. Ha!

With all due respect, you are on the wrong forum.  I do not know anyone here that cares about your theories at all.

I certainly do. While I don't see the difference between "collectively owned rather than owned in common", I am pretty much a geo-libertarian because I have spent time thinking about the nature of rights.

[DC]

This from the guy that attacks one of the few things (the Liberty Dollar) finding some success against the leviathon. Ha!
This from the guy that seems to adore that socialist Ghandi. Ha!

I hate the fiat currencies also but I happen to agree with LeRuineur6 on the Liberty dollar.

right...you are trying to change the terms here - the freeloaders are getting social services in the state that you want to move to which is funded by sales and income tax.

they move to NH and get the economic rent but no social services - there is no NET gain.

Ask any freeloader if they want cash or social services and see what they say. What is this state that I want to move to crap? I didn't say anything about a sales or income tax. If liberty fails here then Im heading to the Caribbean and watch the country collapse under its own weight.



Quote from: LeRuineur6 on Today at 05:56:45 PM

With all due respect, you are on the wrong forum.? I do not know anyone here that cares about your theories at all.

Posted by: rhelwig

I certainly do. While I don't see the difference between "collectively owned rather than owned in common", I am pretty much a geo-libertarian because I have spent time thinking about the nature of rights

Go to the FSP forum and search for post by Greenbacks and Bill G. and you can read about it for days.

[BillG]

Go to the FSP forum and search for post by Greenbacks and Bill G. and you can read about it for days

and you will also see that I was banned from the FSP forum about 4 months ago.

I did hear from someone that posts there that Jason recently paid me a nice compliment in saying a few people had agreed with me whereas Green had convinced no one.

[BillG]

Guys, please don't give in to the communists.? Rather than moving stuff around and moderating things, I just want to ignore the trolls and ask them to leave.? Of course, you can do whatever you want - it's not my forum.


Wrong audience, Hank.? With all due respect, you are on the wrong forum.? I do not know anyone here that cares about your theories at all.? This is a very poor place to promote your ideas, and you're just annoying me and interrupting unrelated conversations with your ideas.

I don't like it when we ban people or move, lock, or delete threads.? I prefer that trolls leave of their own free will.

Greens have been more active on the FSP forums than anyone else and have gained nothing from it but endless debate.? You guys practically live there and it's absolutely pathetic.? I do not want you to destroy these forums like you and the other greens have done to the FSP forums.? Please leave.

Mike-

one of mentors was a guy named Bob Swann.

he was the director of the e.f.schumacher society (catholic distributist) in western mass. where I grew up.
he was a conscientious objector during WWII and spent time in jail where he started reading Tolstoy and that is how he found out about Henry George. Tracy is a christian anarchist - Tolstoy was a christian anarchist AND Georgist.

Russell was reading Tolstoy so I thought he would be interested to know that Tolstoy was a Georgist.

So now I am labelled a socialist because I said Tolstoy was a Georgist or because all the anarchists engaged in civil disobedience who are reading Tolstoy don't want to admit that Tolstoy was a Georgist because they believe him to be an anarchist.

somebody is wrong...

was Tolstoy a Georgist or not?
if he is how can I be a socialist?

I will post another thread on Bob Swann's life and his involvement with Tolstoy, MLK, Ghandi, and civil disobedience... 

[Michael Fisher]

With all due respect, you are on the wrong forum.? I do not know anyone here that cares about your theories at all.

I certainly do. While I don't see the difference between "collectively owned rather than owned in common", I am pretty much a geo-libertarian because I have spent time thinking about the nature of rights.

Well, apparently I'm wrong.  It's not the first time and it won't be the last time.

I apologize, Ron and Hank.

[Michael Fisher]

So now I am labelled a socialist because I said Tolstoy was a Georgist or because all the anarchists engaged in civil disobedience who are reading Tolstoy don't want to admit that Tolstoy was a Georgist because they believe him to be an anarchist.

somebody is wrong...

was Tolstoy a Georgist or not?
if he is how can I be a socialist?

I didn't say Tolstoy was an anarchist.  I don't think anyone did.

I like the effects of his writings about nonviolent noncooperation.  That's all.

[BillG]

So now I am labelled a socialist because I said Tolstoy was a Georgist or because all the anarchists engaged in civil disobedience who are reading Tolstoy don't want to admit that Tolstoy was a Georgist because they believe him to be an anarchist.

somebody is wrong...

was Tolstoy a Georgist or not?
if he is how can I be a socialist?

I didn't say Tolstoy was an anarchist.? I don't think anyone did.

I like the effects of his writings about nonviolent noncooperation.? That's all.

Tracy did - a "christian anarchist" to be exact.