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Author Topic: Bad news for RecumbentRecycler!  (Read 17571 times)

lildog

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Re: Bad news for RecumbentRecycler!
« Reply #30 on: December 02, 2009, 10:33 PM NHFT »

** [clue] Tim applies Doctor-prescribed lotion to young daughter's privates when wife refuses/doesn't want to. Daughter has some kind of rash or other issue.**

...

Tim was advised re the best lawyer in New England for this type of case - retainer: $50,000. No one in his family could bear that cost, so he stayed with the court-appointed lawyer, who advises him if he doesn't take the plea offer, he'll lose the case and get 25 to life.

These two points are what strike me as odd.

If he was applying a lotion prescribed by a doctor then there is a paper trail showing this.  That alone should be enough to defend what he was accused of.

Regarding the 2nd point, as I said already, if I were innocent of a crime there would be no way on earth I would plea bargain to anything.  I would fight it tooth and nail and if found guilty and given 25 years or more I would continue to appeal every chance and every way I could.

Also regarding the 2nd point, for a lawyer to tell you that if you don't plea bargain you'll lose the case implies to me that there was some solid evidence against him.  I can't imagine any lawyer advising you to accept punishment if you told them you were innocent of the charge.
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jaqeboy

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Re: Bad news for RecumbentRecycler!
« Reply #31 on: December 03, 2009, 01:09 AM NHFT »

** [clue] Tim applies Doctor-prescribed lotion to young daughter's privates when wife refuses/doesn't want to. Daughter has some kind of rash or other issue.**

...

Tim was advised re the best lawyer in New England for this type of case - retainer: $50,000. No one in his family could bear that cost, so he stayed with the court-appointed lawyer, who advises him if he doesn't take the plea offer, he'll lose the case and get 25 to life.

These two points are what strike me as odd.

If he was applying a lotion prescribed by a doctor then there is a paper trail showing this.  That alone should be enough to defend what he was accused of.

Regarding the 2nd point, as I said already, if I were innocent of a crime there would be no way on earth I would plea bargain to anything.  I would fight it tooth and nail and if found guilty and given 25 years or more I would continue to appeal every chance and every way I could.

Also regarding the 2nd point, for a lawyer to tell you that if you don't plea bargain you'll lose the case implies to me that there was some solid evidence against him.  I can't imagine any lawyer advising you to accept punishment if you told them you were innocent of the charge.

Yep, easy for you to say... and, my version is necessarily brief and simplified for lack of knowing any more than what I wrote. I'll read the case file and see if there is more to it than that. A saying about the legal system: "We've got the best legal system that money can buy"... therefore we are in a system where 1/3 of the death row inmates in Illinois are found by DNA testing to be innocent and OJ can buy a half dozen lawyers and get off (I know... maybe he was framed, but it still took a bunch of $$ to get the not guilty verdict). If those Illinois defendants had had OJ's lawyers, they would never have been on death row (even the guilty ones).

In this real life case, if Tim had had the $50K entry fee, he could have had a chance - if not, he can have a court-appointed lawyer that's certainly no F.Lee Bailey and has to get on to the next poor doomed schmo when Tim's case is over. The lawyer advised Tim that he has seen a couple of dozen of these cases and they just can't win them. Sounds like the social climate of hysteria (whether the parties are guilty or not) leans the board to the guilty side and the legislature has put in some harsh sentencing statutes.
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Russell Kanning

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Re: Bad news for RecumbentRecycler!
« Reply #32 on: December 03, 2009, 02:52 AM NHFT »

If he didn't do it, he should have never 'copped' to it, even if it meant dragging the wife and kids to court.
yea .... i don't get it
how do you plead guilty to this in court if you didn't do it?
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Russell Kanning

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Re: Bad news for RecumbentRecycler!
« Reply #33 on: December 03, 2009, 02:57 AM NHFT »

But I guess in your minds he's an innocent victim since he didn't steal your power company bill money or something unforgivable like that.
who is "your"?
in my mind .... i doubt he did it
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Russell Kanning

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Re: Bad news for RecumbentRecycler!
« Reply #34 on: December 03, 2009, 03:07 AM NHFT »

Regarding the 2nd point, as I said already, if I were innocent of a crime there would be no way on earth I would plea bargain to anything.  I would fight it tooth and nail and if found guilty and given 25 years or more I would continue to appeal every chance and every way I could.

Also regarding the 2nd point, for a lawyer to tell you that if you don't plea bargain you'll lose the case implies to me that there was some solid evidence against him.  I can't imagine any lawyer advising you to accept punishment if you told them you were innocent of the charge.
i agree .... but i have met many people who plead guilty to stuff they didn't do

a lawyer working for the government would
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KBCraig

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Re: Bad news for RecumbentRecycler!
« Reply #35 on: December 03, 2009, 04:57 AM NHFT »

If he didn't do it, he should have never 'copped' to it, even if it meant dragging the wife and kids to court.
yea .... i don't get it
how do you plead guilty to this in court if you didn't do it?

Ummm... like this?
i agree .... but i have met many people who plead guilty to stuff they didn't do

I only know one sure thing about this case: everyone on this thread saying they would never make the plea that Tim made, has never been in the the situation Tim was in.

It wasn't just 10 years versus 25-to-life; it was putting his daughter on the stand to let his attorney destroy her and her testimony, versus hoping for a chance of a future relationship with her.

That's one helluva quandry. It's more than any keyboard komandos have ever faced.
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Lloyd Danforth

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Re: Bad news for RecumbentRecycler!
« Reply #36 on: December 03, 2009, 08:16 AM NHFT »

If he was applying a lotion prescribed by a doctor then there is a paper trail showing this.  That alone should be enough to defend what he was accused of.
I thought about this. At 3 years couldn't one just squeeze some lotion n the kids finger and tell her to apply it to the infected area?
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lildog

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Re: Bad news for RecumbentRecycler!
« Reply #37 on: December 03, 2009, 09:14 AM NHFT »

It wasn't just 10 years versus 25-to-life; it was putting his daughter on the stand to let his attorney destroy her and her testimony, versus hoping for a chance of a future relationship with her.

That's one helluva quandry. It's more than any keyboard komandos have ever faced.

And as a registered sex offender he may NEVER be allowed to see his daughter again.

After reading story after story about registered sex offenders having to live in tents because towns write laws kicking them out and knowing everything I know about the life they are put through I'm sorry but I cannot fathom any innocent person willingly accepting it as something they see as a lesser evil.  If you were innocent would you allow your entire life to be tossed away because someone working for the state and assigned to defend you tells you that you'll most likely lose so just give up?

Heck, isn't that why you all joined the free state project in the first place?  Because you feel it's worth fighting against a system that everyone else tells you is a lost cost and you should just give up and work with it rather then against it?
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Sovereign Curtis

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Re: Bad news for RecumbentRecycler!
« Reply #38 on: December 03, 2009, 09:28 AM NHFT »

Sounds like Tim could have plead not guilty, and put the burden on the prosecution as to whether or not him applying his lotioned hand to her genitals, was for the purpose of sexual stimulation.

Sounds like it would have been pretty easy for the defense, "Your honor, My Client, ...lotion....rash....3y/o daughter....upstanding citizen".

however, it would have been pretty damn ugly once it was the prosecution's turn.
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cathleeninnh

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Re: Bad news for RecumbentRecycler!
« Reply #39 on: December 03, 2009, 09:40 AM NHFT »

This is just awful.

I was called a couple of weeks ago by a woman identifying herself as his public defender. I did not know the charges. She asked for a letter of character. Not knowing him well or the charges, I asked my public defender son in law for advice. He said that meant there was already a finding of guilty and the letter would be for sentencing. Not knowing the charges would give strength to the letter. I called the woman back and left a message that I was willing to write such a letter. She never called me back.

I know that people everyday plead guilty to things they did not do. The threats are very powerful. I know this first hand. Believe me. I heard a lawyer say" I would love to take this to trial, but the odds are strongly against you. You decide" A guilty finding after a trial can lead to a sentencing 10 times longer. Maybe sometimes it is known what the plea bargain sentence is, but not in my experience. Sounds like here, Tim might have been told "I will try to get you 3, which is far better than 25"

I wonder, did he know when pleading that he would be a sex offender for life and those consequences?

I also know how far parents will go to spare their children pain and suffering. This may take the cake. 

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LordBaltimore

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Re: Bad news for RecumbentRecycler!
« Reply #40 on: December 03, 2009, 10:13 AM NHFT »

** [clue] Tim applies Doctor-prescribed lotion to young daughter's privates when wife refuses/doesn't want to. Daughter has some kind of rash or other issue.**

If this were true, all he had to do was put the doctor on the stand and ask if he prescribed the lotion for her privates.
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K. Darien Freeheart

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Re: Bad news for RecumbentRecycler!
« Reply #41 on: December 03, 2009, 11:34 AM NHFT »

Quote
I have for many years wondered if the major impact of child molestation isn't the authority figures in the child's life telling teaching the child that their "innocents has been stolen", et al.
I think that those authority figures generally teach these children revenge, hatred and fear.

Quote
I'd like to discuss this further, but think that the TMI area is more appropriate.  I'm going to start a thread there; feel free to respond there (or not) if you'd like.

John, my personal experience is somewhat like you say. Friday was interested in my perspective on this as well, and the thread has been started. http://nhunderground.com/forum/index.php?topic=19688.0

Quote
Sounds like it would have been pretty easy for the defense, "Your honor, My Client, ...lotion....rash....3y/o daughter....upstanding citizen".

I will say this... The fact that he's offering explanations sends up red flags to me. There's also something in the article (and I take it with a grain of salt) that he offered her chocolate to keep it quiet. I don't know how much of this is true but it's a bit concerning.
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tony

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Re: Bad news for RecumbentRecycler!
« Reply #42 on: December 03, 2009, 12:21 PM NHFT »


Quote
I will say this... The fact that he's offering explanations sends up red flags to me. There's also something in the article (and I take it with a grain of salt) that he offered her chocolate to keep it quiet. I don't know how much of this is true but it's a bit concerning.

3 yo cries  -maybe in pain. Lotion applied. Father soothing the child - offers chocolate. etc.
We do not know enough what happen. All I know we can not rely on court proceeding as objective truth.
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Kat Kanning

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Re: Bad news for RecumbentRecycler!
« Reply #43 on: December 03, 2009, 12:57 PM NHFT »

Having been through one of thise trials, it's perfectly reasonable to want to spare your child the experience.  :(
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MengerFan

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Re: Bad news for RecumbentRecycler!
« Reply #44 on: December 03, 2009, 01:06 PM NHFT »

The daughter is stuck with the mother for the next fifteen years. I really hope she is not a psychopath who makes up sick allegations against people for no reason.
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