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Questions about ShireHours

Started by frake, December 03, 2009, 09:16 AM NHFT

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frake

Hey everyone,
I have some questions about how shirehours works.
Andy and Bob join up.
They give each other a credit cap of one shireweek.
Andy does work for Bob that they value at 8 shirehours.
Bob goes on shirehours and pays Andy 8 shirehours.
1. What do their accounts look like?
2. Where did Bob get the 8 shirehours from?
3. Who does Bob owe for the 8 shirehours he made up?
4. Can Andy only use his newly earned shirehours on Bob?
5. Do the shirehours have Bob's name on them, then anyone else who gets them can use them to get work from Bob (and if Bob doesn't do it, then he is publicly rediculed and called out for the scoundrel he is)?

A lot of questions, I know.
Thanks everyone,
Frake

jaqeboy

Quote from: frake on December 03, 2009, 09:16 AM NHFT
Hey everyone,
I have some questions about how shirehours works.
Andy and Bob join up.
They give each other a credit cap of one shireweek.
Andy does work for Bob that they value at 8 shirehours.
Bob goes on shirehours and pays Andy 8 shirehours.
1. What do their accounts look like?
2. Where did Bob get the 8 shirehours from?
3. Who does Bob owe for the 8 shirehours he made up?
4. Can Andy only use his newly earned shirehours on Bob?
5. Do the shirehours have Bob's name on them, then anyone else who gets them can use them to get work from Bob (and if Bob doesn't do it, then he is publicly rediculed and called out for the scoundrel he is)?

A lot of questions, I know.
Thanks everyone,
Frake

We'll have to see if we can get barterer back in the loop on this. He's the designer of the system. My answers are:

1) Bob's balance: -8 SH, Andy's balance: +8 SH

2) Bob "mints" the Shire Hours. They are an IOU. Bob now owes Andy
an equivalent.

3) Bob only owes Andy if there are only the 2 of them on the system. As the system and their network grows, they're more or less owed to the system, in that anyone in the system could accept "repayment" from Bob of something of value and pay him 8 SH. BUT, it doesn't have to be 8, it could be any other amount and reduce his balance (negative means he has a debt)

4) No, Andy can use his Shire Hours with any one. Actually if he pays someone 2 shire hours, say Joe, then the balances are:
Bob: -8
Andy: 6
Joe: 2

5) They don't have Bob's name on them. They are fungible (spendable) with anyone anywhere, that is signed up on the system, as long as they agree to accept SH for the particular transaction.

Did you sign up for an account yet?
Jack

frake

Cool thanks Jack,
Now it's a pretty clear to me.
I did sign up (and actually got an email from barterer), but I currently live in Atlanta.
Frake

jaqeboy

Quote from: frake on December 04, 2009, 07:13 AM NHFT
Cool thanks Jack,
Now it's a pretty clear to me.
I did sign up (and actually got an email from barterer), but I currently live in Atlanta.
Frake

Excellent that it's clearer. I admit it's a little hard to understand. We were thinking of doing some YouTube training videos to cover frequently asked questions. You gave us some of them in your post. The videos will have to come when there's more time  :) (does that ever happen?)

How about this?... let's set up an account with each other and experiment with it. First, you can pay me .25 hours for my lesson, then I could donate .25 to you for being such a good guy! Basically you have to set up accounts with each person you want to do biz with, and there's an automatic privacy protection, in that you don't know all of the people I have accounts with. But then again you won't know who will accept Shire Hours. but... barterer has designed something to help in that area, too.

My Shire Hours account name is jaqeboy and you can extend credit to me at shirehours@ijaq.net. Just give me 5 hours credit (since we don't know each other too well). You can always raise or lower it as trust increases or decreases. I'll reciprocate by giving you a similar amount of credit. Then when that's set up "shoot me some Shire!"

Where's that elusive barterer???

Barterer

Quote from: jaqeboy on December 04, 2009, 10:12 PM NHFT
Where's that elusive barterer???
Still here!  Thanks for the heads up.. the elusive barterer is neck deep in other projects.   

You are right on the ball in explaining how it works, so I have little to add.

1. right on, Andy is up +8 shirehours for some good or service he provided

2. Bob "minted" the shirehours (another good clarifying Jaque-ism) and at the current limits Bob is only able to mint and send Andy one shireweek, or 40 hours before doing something and starting to rebuild his balance.  Others could give Bob credit (permission to mint and pay them certain amounts, acknowledging that Bob's "minting" is good) but Bob and Andy cannot get more than 40 hours from square.

3. Could not say it better myself.. Bob can do some work for a third trusted-by-Andy party, and be paid all or part of the 8 hours.  And if Andy owed that 3rd party some shirehours, the amont would come off of what Bob owes Andy.

4. One caveat there -- Joe still has to give credit to whoever he is accepting the shirehours from.  Nobody can make a shill account to make their shirehours universally acceptable.. In the example, Joe is protected from bogus generation of shirehours.   

5. After Bob's shirehours are accepted by Andy and spent to someone else, Andy is responsible to that person for the validity of the shirehours and in turn, Bob has guaranteed Andy that the shirehours are redeemable.. that he will work his way back to zero balance.  If Bob cuts and runs, he's robbed Andy and now Andy must work off Bob's IOUs that he passed along.

I strongly encourage people to just practice trading back and forth even if nothing is trading hands in the real world.  Then once they get the hang of it, they can move their real deals onto it, and nobody knows the difference.

Shire on !  :icon_pirat:

frake

Thanks everyone.
Y'all's explainations have really crystallized it in my mind. I was thinking about it wrong.
What's really being traded is labor or stuff now for labor or stuff in the future.
"Hey, help me out today, and I'll help you out (or someone else you want me to) in the future."
And, the shirehours are a way to measure how much help/stuff is done/given or owed.
I'll get on there and add Jack to my list of contacts.
thanks again,
frake

jaqeboy

Quote from: frake on December 07, 2009, 12:29 PM NHFT
Thanks everyone.
Y'all's explainations have really crystallized it in my mind. I was thinking about it wrong.
What's really being traded is labor or stuff now for labor or stuff in the future.
"Hey, help me out today, and I'll help you out (or someone else you want me to) in the future."
And, the shirehours are a way to measure how much help/stuff is done/given or owed.
I'll get on there and add Jack to my list of contacts.
thanks again,
frake

You pretty much have it. I look at it as a way of trading IOU's, which, if you think about it is what trading "notes", as in Federal Reserve Notes, is. There's a really good essay on that linked from either the FAQ page or the About page on the SH site. You should read that. I thought that helped clarify it for me.

I'll look for you on the SH site. You just offer credit and I get an email notifying me of that. Then I log on and accept your offer and offer you some credit back. Then we can trade in Shire Hours. You'll see - it's pretty easy once you do it a few times.

jaqeboy

Frake: K, got your offer, accepted it and paid you 1/4 hour for being such a great guy! ;D