Coherent strategy

[muni]

As a Christian, I have seen two distinct approaches to evangelism.

Interesting and good analogy. The thing is that when I knock on the door of the second one asking for direction, they will at least give me the phone number of the priest who can guide me. And, most likely, some pamphlets to read.

The former certainly gets big numbers to the altar, but the 2/5/10 year rate is horrible. When it comes to lasting commitments, more people are persuaded by someone who lives the life of Christ, than by someone who thunders fire and brimstone from the pulpit.

Another interesting point, I don't think there's a way to count the number of movers who left NH and which camp they were in.

[error]

We are all on our own journeys of learning and discovery.

One possible way to measure whether an activity is successful is whether it makes money. I plant seeds in the minds of people who have never heard the message of liberty before. I water those seeds. When they sprout, I send those people to more "advanced" resources to learn more. It's still making me money, even in this economy, so I think it's successful.

This is just what I do.

What others do is up to them.

[muni]

Still waiting but not holding my breath. Oh, well.

"If you don't know where you are going, any road will get you there."  -- The cat, Alice in Wonderland.

[KBCraig]

What are you waiting on, muni?

[Russell Kanning]

i don't think he likes any of our answers

i guess you will have to strike out on your own path .... keep us updated if you want to

[muni]

What are you waiting on, muni?

At first I was waiting for someone to post a goal and a strategy how to get there from here.

After someone posted that many people can state a goal and strategy, I asked to talk to them, now I'm waiting for a phone call. I'd like to talk to someone on the CD side.

i don't think he likes any of our answers

Before I can decide if I like them or not, I need to understand what they are. So far the only partial answer was Kat's: "Get millions of people to join us". Certainly a goal, but no strategy to go along with it.

I kind of feel sorry for the CD movement that no one can state their goal and strategy. I think that you guys need to answer to yourselves, not to me, what your goal is and how to get there from here.

[Sam A. Robrin]

I wrote this piece to express the same point you were trying to make, Muni.  Before they go self-fulfilling the prophecy of the third line of the bridge, I have to warn everyone that so far, in my observation, the offendeder people get, the applicabler this is to them . . . !

THIS ORGANIZATION IS IN DISORGANIZATION
COPYRIGHT 2010 by Sam A. Robrin or whoever the hell it is who writes these things. Go ahead and use it, but if you make a little money on it, I want some!

Free State freedom activists look pompously askance
At anyone suggesting planning projects in advance.
Protests limp along not with a bang, but with the whimp'r of
A group of high school kids making impromptu tries at improv.

Headaches, itching, nosebleeds, palpitations, sweats, and trembling
Are side effects of any course of action but assembling
Slapdashedly together at the last remaining minute.
It's messy, muddled madness with no trace of method in it.

   Many activists are known to faint or throw up
   At the proffer of polite entreaties to show up.
   One fact's irrefutable from careful observation:
   This organization is in disorganization!

Freedom-lovers focus on life's joys and how to get them--
Not in crafting tactics to persuade the State to let them.
Dealing with the State's inane--sane folks don't manage well with it,
The rational reaction is to simply say the hell with it.

Running through the Project is a much-debated schism:
Can cooperation coexist with individualism?
The proof of all this putting-down is evidenced in that all
Our goals are not achieved efficiently--if at all.

   "Organized" has earned itself a blot over time--
   Look at organized religion, labor, or crime.
   Regardless of the word's haphazard application,
   This organization is in disorganization!

      When the planning procedure proves positively to be a little rickety,
      The slightest critique or suggestion is perceived as too persnickety.
      No matter the merit or clear intent, the speaker's dunned for an apology
      For willfully trying to force on the group such an outlandish methodology.

      The attitude here is that activism's entirely up to you:
      Do it yourself--including the stuff we told you we would do.
      When unrehearsed events go Flop!, we say, "Oh what a shame,"
      And slam the organizer with a metric ton of blame.

IRS, NSA, FBI, CIA,
FCC, BATF, and USDA,
DHS, EPA, DEA, DOE,
DOD or -J or -E or -L, -S, -I, -C,

OSHA, FEMA, NASA, HUD, the FDIC,
FTC, SEC, TSA, DMV,
Bureaus, agencies, police departments, and courts--
The competition has organization, of sorts!

As that (very small) sampling above indicates,
Our planning doesn't measure up to that of the State's.
One thing we must clean up before we sweep the nation:
The disorganization that's in this organization!

[Russell Kanning]

since i want to live in a world where everyone helps each other and doesn't hurt others, that is what i should do

i should do to others what i want done to me - Jesus Christ
i should help others, or at least not hurt them - Dali Lama

therefore i should cooperate with those that  are helpful ..... often in an organized way with Sam A.
i should also not cooperate and help disorganize those that hurt others, but since i should love even my enemies ..... i have to do that in a nonviolent way

Jesus laid out, in a very unorganized way (mostly Matthew 5-7), what the Kingdom of God looks like and how we should act in order to attain it. Tolstoy wrote a very logical and organized book about it that could be very helpful. Jesus led a pretty unorganized life. He had a few basic goals, but mostly helped people he met and taught people who wanted to listen. He also had many people come up to him and ask for his plan to overthrow the Roman empire. They often didn't like his methods (nonviolence) and left dejected. I think it will be the same for you Muni. One of Christ's goals was to leave a new pattern for behavior and he changed the world by it. I think we can follow him and change our corner of the world also.

Since then some good people have followed his example and give us modern patterns for our behavior. Some of my friends on this forum are taking steps along that path. Those steps might be ackward, but they make progress. Those steps might not seem to make sense or be organized, but to those of us walking on the same road can see it pretty clearly ahead of us.

If your goal is to, as quickly as possible, topple the government, then i would recommend reading "voluntary servitude" and "civil disobedience".

if you want the movement to be more organized, then make plans and see if anyone wants to follow them

[SethCohn]

Excerpts from various translations of the Tao Te Ching:

Verse 8 (take 1):
The highest good is like water.
Water give life to the ten thousand things and does not strive.
It flows in places men reject and so is like the Tao.

In dwelling, be close to the land.
In meditation, go deep in the heart.
In dealing with others, be gentle and kind.
In speech, be true.
In ruling, be just.
In daily life, be competent.
In action, be aware of the time and the season.

No fight: No blame.


Verse 8 (take 2)
The supreme good is like water,
which nourishes all things without trying to.
It is content with the low places that people disdain.
Thus it is like the Tao.

In dwelling, live close to the ground.
In thinking, keep to the simple.
In conflict, be fair and generous.
In governing, don't try to control.
In work, do what you enjoy.
In family life, be completely present.

When you are content to be simply yourself
and don't compare or compete,
everybody will respect you.

Verse 34:
The great Tao covers everything like a flood.
It flows to the left and to the right.
The ten thousand things depend upon it
and it denies none of them.
It accomplishes its task yet claims no reward.
It clothes and feeds the ten thousand things
yet it does not attempt to control them.
Therefore, it may be called "the little."

The ten thousand things return to it,
even though it does not control them.
Therefore, it may be called "the great."

So it is that the True Person does not wish to be great
and therefore becomes truly great.

Verse 17:
The best leader is one whose existence
is barely known by the people.
Next comes one whom they love and praise.
Next comes one they fear.
Next comes one they defy.

If you do not trust enough, you will not be trusted.

True Persons do not offer words lightly.
When their task is accomplished
and their work is completed,
the people say, "It happened to us naturally."

(there are tons of translations of the Tao Te Ching, amazing how many different versions of the same source text you can get.... )

[George Donnelly]

muni, you say you want to talk to someone on the phone? Give me a call if you like. 484 868 0684. Just email me and let me know what time you'll call beforehand bc I don't pick up for unknown numbers. me@georgedonnelly.com

[thinkliberty]

Before I can decide if I like them or not, I need to understand what they are. So far the only partial answer was Kat's: "Get millions of people to join us". Certainly a goal, but no strategy to go along with it.

I kind of feel sorry for the CD movement that no one can state their goal and strategy. I think that you guys need to answer to yourselves, not to me, what your goal is and how to get there from here.

If I knew "the answer" on how to get from there from here, I would already be at there.

I think we need to keep trying and doing things. There is no "magic bullet" it will take a lot of different things to stop them.  How do you think you are going to stop a violent bureaucratic mafia?

You'll need to do more than just vote. You have to convince everyone else around you to vote the same way you  do.  You'll need to do more than just raise a ton of money for a political candidate. Ron Paul raised a ton of money and lots of people tried to get people to vote for him, but the media blew him off, he did not win a single state. He got about 1% of the primary vote. That money and momentum is gone now, wasted in my opinion. 

Maybe when the FSP gets 20,000 people in NH voting will be something to try, but voting is not going to change anyone's mind.

You need to convince people that using violent methods to collect money (like taxation and statutory fees) is not in their best interests. Getting people to vote anonymously in a private booth is not going to do that.

[PaulOtt]

The CD crowd and the politicos both have the same goal: liberty in our lifetime.

They have the same strategy: get important issues and liberty people known to other folks in the community in hopes of eventually having enough power to enact change.

They do it through many similar ways: rallies of lots of like-minded people usually centered around specific issues, communications with news media, sign waving, handing out fliers/pamphlets, and so on.

There are some differences worth noting: The politicos running for office talk about how they're going to represent the community by reducing the bad parts of society, making the good parts better, and try to convince enough of the public that it is in their best interest to vote for him/her (and/or send money). The CD folks also talk about the bad parts of society but try to demonstrate just how bad it is and why it is in the best interest of the public to stop supporting the bad parts and to do more good in any way they can.

So you see, the politicos and CD are two sides of the same coin, so to speak. The only way we're going to have liberty is by: (a) convincing or demonstrating to our neighbors that the current system is far from ideal, and (b) pass along understanding to our neighbors that there is a better way than the government "solutions" being proposed.

[Lloyd Danforth]

+1

[Russell Kanning]

the person that started this thread didn't mention he liked political means or if he voted
he just wanted a strategy to follow
the various posters have given him a few coherent strategies of their own
now we will see what he does with it

[George Donnelly]

The CD crowd and the politicos both have the same goal: liberty in our lifetime.

They have the same strategy: get important issues and liberty people known to other folks in the community in hopes of eventually having enough power to enact change.

They do it through many similar ways: rallies of lots of like-minded people usually centered around specific issues, communications with news media, sign waving, handing out fliers/pamphlets, and so on.

...

So you see, the politicos and CD are two sides of the same coin, so to speak. The only way we're going to have liberty is by: (a) convincing or demonstrating to our neighbors that the current system is far from ideal, and (b) pass along understanding to our neighbors that there is a better way than the government "solutions" being proposed.

Paul I think you've misrepresented the anarchist ("outside-the-system") perspective. The anarchist strategy is not to to wave signs nor is it to just get a bunch of people together in the hopes something will eventually happen (tho anarchist sometimes participate in those kinds of efforts). Those are both politico (minarchist) strategies.

I see political solutions and strategies as part of the problem, and certainly not helpful to or compatible with anarchist efforts. The idea that the minarchist toolset (protesting, electioneering, voting, petitioning, etc) will save the day enables people to stop looking for something better.

People can have liberty right now, using anarchistic strategies. No need to wait a lifetime. That's apparently a secret that's not getting past the minarchist filter.