Civil Disobedience Evolution Fund

[elkingrey]

I agree with Pat K. Let those who want to use the lawyer to defend themselves use the lawyer. Give a fat wad of cash to those who would rather just go directly to jail.

Lauren, how would you like to have been handed a $2000 dollar check from CDEF after you got out of jail the last time?

This is a no-brainer to me. It's activists helping activists. Ever given a ride to somebody who votes Libertarian? Why, you're helping to state! Nonsense.

[Russell Kanning]

I wish that more of you saw the potential that CDEF could have for changing bad state behavior.

Even if you don't agree with what we're trying to do and choose to not support us: I love you anyways

oh no .... those hugs that ian is giving out are getting to ya buddy

[Russell Kanning]

yea Jim i know what you mean
when the government is so oppressive it make it hard to plan/work for the future
you don't feel like owning things or building up resources, when they can just be taken by force
i guess that sort of thing is what prompted this group .... as another way for friends to help each other ... and maybe even less connected people

for 2 of the people involved with this fund ..... one had lots of money taken by the thugs and the other had his dream of helping people through community service dashed on the rocks of the police state

if it helps activists it will be great ... if it feeds lawyers     ack!

[Lloyd Danforth]

The costs are insane. Those gonifs get like $5.00 a minute!
Part of my theory  that Freestater lawyers, particularly lawyers just starting out might be willing to do legal work for other activists, for sustenance or, at least for a price considerably less than most lawyers get.  You know, you and I have shared our expertise by helping Porcs build stuff and, we hope for some kind of reciprocation.
I'm hoping the legal guys step up.   Interestingly, some of the most effective legal stuff I see going on is being performed by two non lawyers.

[Russell Kanning]

but lawyers are not like the rest of us
i have gotten free medical advice and emergency help from high priced doctors
rich and busy businessmen will give advice and help often
us accountants often help out in small ways for free
but lawyers want to charge for everything ..... they are the worst

i have a feeling most stuph in courts and paperwork will be done by wellmeaning non-lawyer friends of activists

you would think the startup lawyers would want exposure and a good name in the community, but no .... they are worried about pleasing the guys up the political food chain ... not us normal people

teachers of the law and lawyers were just barely above tax collectors on the Jesus Christ scale of decency

[Lloyd Danforth]

Can't argue with that.

[Sam A. Robrin]

If a program like this could be used to throw a monkeywrench between the grinding cogs of the State machine, I'd say Go for it!--but from all I've seen, once lawyers--even the most dedicated liberty-activist lawyers--get into the picture, it becomes a big Risk game to them, and devotion to the rules, and doing whatever it takes to play within the rules, and coming to believe that the powermongers even know or care or will follow the rules takes over.  Then the whole thing fizzles out and you're just left with an expensive mess to clean up.
     SamIAm's situation, and all the related trials (with which I was involved, for those just tuning in . . .), brought this home to me.  I couldn't believe some of the effects it had on my own behavior (You never think it can happen to you . . .).   We all let the system surprise us, terrorize and paralyze us, and meekly handed over a victory.
     So if lawyers can be found who won't be co-opted by the system--not to mention litigants ditto--it may do some good, but I don't have a whole lot of faith that that'll happen.

[Tom Sawyer]

[Tom Sawyer]

A guy I know who went to prison for selling drugs... he said the lawyer was the punishment.

My parents divorce made the lawyers rich and left us kids with hardly enough food to eat.

[Lloyd Danforth]

The way I see it is they are like guns: Dirty, smelly, noisy and, often, ugly and heavy, but sometimes you gotta use them.

[MTPorcupine3]

My parents divorce made the lawyers rich and left us kids with hardly enough food to eat.

Funny you should mention that. My friend Teresa was sued by her ex for full custody of the kids. He complained, among other things (such as breast feeding her two-year-old), about her homeschooling. He paid $5k to go on the offencive, she paid $4 to defend herself to maintain her primary custody (after the kids were taken from her by force). She easily won the case, but imagine what educational material, services, or 'field trips' could have been funded with that $9K!

[dalebert]

Since then I have seen my friends abused, threatened and jailed by the Government for the most petty things.  Things that a rational person could not imagine to be an offense, but things the Government deems to be the most egregious of acts. 
Remaining Silent
Standing in a public place
Handing someone a piece of paper
Saying Unapproved Things
Participating in unregulated activity
Asking Bureaucrats to explain themselves
smoking harmless weeds

While the Government institutionalizes theft, instructs it members on lying, and murders with little question.
I know Government to be full from it's top to the base of it's pits with liars, thieves and murders...

It's something I feel a strong intuition about, but Jim did a good job of putting it into words. I believe that whatever hope there is, it doesn't lie there. Maybe you'll have to try it a while and see where it takes you. I have no doubt it will be a learning experience, albeit an expensive one. I wouldn't be able to participate though.

[Tom Sawyer]

If the lawsuit approach was a good choice some hot shot lawyer would do it for a cut of the award... if they don't have faith that it will pay off why should anyone else?

[dalebert]

If the lawsuit approach was a good choice some hot shot lawyer would do it for a cut of the award... if they don't have faith that it will pay off why should anyone else?

The "good" ambulance chasers do exactly that and they make a killing. If they won't take your case on that basis, that's probably a pretty good sign that you're throwing your money into a big money hole.

[Lloyd Danforth]

If the lawsuit approach was a good choice some hot shot lawyer would do it for a cut of the award... if they don't have faith that it will pay off why should anyone else?

I'm hoping the right person steps up and encouraging the amateurs.  As I've said in the past, we have to throw everything at them if we want to win.