Decrim. sellout

[Tom Sawyer]

Decriminalization has been touted as the easiest path to marijuana law reform. As in many things the easiest path is often not the best.

Decriminalization

Still includes searches of vehicles at pullovers... think Barskey's recent experience.

Still is a pretext to a complete search of your home. example: The police come to your home on another matter... they see a roach in the ashtray... which goes along with their training. Complete lawful search of your residence.

Still could be a reason to seize your children.

As in Sovereign Curtiss's case... just step the offense up to a felony... Handing someone a joint is distribution.

The list goes on...

Anyway, I sensed that the latest bill that http://nhcommonsense.org/ is touting was not the right direction. Many reasons... but to include... the war on marijuana is lost... why negotiate the peace with hat in hand begging for crumbs... not a wise strategy. The public denouncing of the 420 events by Matt Simon, then the attack on me daring to question the sensibility of the approach lead by the senior Mr. Danforth... lead me to...
Swallow the rising bile in my throat and read the bill...

(b) Any person under 18 years of age who is in possession of 1/4 ounce or less of marijuana, including any adulterants or dilutants, and who engages in any conduct prohibited under RSA 318-B:2 shall be guilty of a violation and subject to a fine not to exceed $200 and forfeiture of the marijuana. The offender's parents or legal guardians shall be notified of the offense. The court shall order the offender to complete an approved drug awareness program, at the offenders expense, within one year of the date of the offense. Further, the court shall order the offender to participate in community service which shall be completed within one year of the date of the offense. The offender shall furnish the court with evidence of completion of both an approved drug awareness program and community service. An offender who fails to complete either a drug awareness program or community service, or both, shall be subject to a fine of $1,000.

So in order to appease the Governor the bill offers up the children as sacrifice.... a real boon to the "treatment" businesses.

I hazard to guess that this in no ways lessens the actual penalties dealt out to youthful victims of the law. It also bolsters the number of people "Seeking treatment for marijuana addiction" that you read about... they weren't seeking treatment for addiction, they were threatened by the court into treatment.

The additional mistake or Uncle Tom strategy in the Decrim. approach is to validate the "Law and Order" crowds prejudices that using cannabis is a degenerate practice... Carl Sagan was a degenerate, the list is quite extensive and the contributions to our culture by these degenerates is immeasurable.

ie. NHCommonsense slogan for this effort is

"Punishment Should Fit the Crime!"

OK we must acknowledge that we have sinned and we need to beg for a lighter "Punishment" for our "Crime".

The history of the war on the users of Cannabis is a litany of ignorance, bigotry and hatred, heaped on peaceful people. So after all the lies about the health consequences, the vilification of an entire class of people, the attempted destruction of a culture...

This is the negotiation of the peace... Letting the bigots off the hook?

The only goal appears to be the desire to have a "political victory". I contend that it is an obstacle to more sweeping reform.

Below is an image from NORML's list of penalties for NH... As you can see someone can be threatened with decades in prison for a rather small number of plants... they can call 20 plants 5+ lbs. This list doesn't include the other charges they often heap on to get defendents to not have their day in court. The result is almost everyone cops a plea and the destruction of the "justice" system. The prosecutors hold all the cards and have become tyrants.



Two weeks from now I'll be in Rhode Island interviewing "legal" cannabis users and suppliers. While NH is still in the dark ages. I have my problems with the "medical" approach... but at least the true health aspects of the plant are re-enforced.

I am not just sniping from the sidelines I contributed my work to NHCommonsense... I also apologise for attacking Matt's motives... I have to remember that often it is the strategy that is bad... not necessary the person promoting it.

Cannabis activism and music fest at Freedom Rally in Boston

[Fluff and Stuff]

It would be an excellent step in the right direction but I'm be very pleasantly shocked if Lynch signed the bill.  Since I have other more important matters to deal with, I'm not spending energy on this bill, though.  It seems you feel the same way 

[Free libertarian]

Some may see Decrim. as a battle won in the larger war towards ending prohibition entirely.  I won't fault somebody for taking decrim.  over the status quo, but it obviously falls short. 

As just about everybody here knows, you either own yourself or you don't.  With decrim.
"they" will still own us.   

Offering to kick me in the shins rather than squarely in the balls sure is nice of "them", but I'd rather not get kicked at all when I've harmed nobody.   

[Lloyd Danforth]

A couple of posts of mine seem to have disappeared lately.  Does anyone know where they went?  I'm gonna need an answer pretty quick.

[Fluff and Stuff]

They went up in smoke?

[Russell Kanning]

A couple of posts of mine seem to have disappeared lately.  Does anyone know where they went?  I'm gonna need an answer pretty quick.

an admin could do that ..... or the owner of the thread
in this case if roger didn't want your posts to stay on his thread they could be gone .... I would not fault him for that


some of us (like say ryan mcguire) might promote decrim ... thinking it is at least better, but not really know
i even see people advocating legalizing and taxing drugs on 420 videos on youtube

any bill that still calls for jail time for anyone possessing a drug or selling it to a willing buyer ...... can't be good

i don't fault any effort to make things better
and as long  as someone doesn't attack my friends, then i support their mj position, even if it is not ideal

[Lloyd Danforth]

I had a point to make, but if my stuff is going to disappear I don't think I will bother anymore.

[Kat Kanning]

Sulking sounds like a pretty good idea.  Or maybe you could start your own thread.

[Russell Kanning]

so since the nh decrim bill doesn't change much
then since Lynch promises to veto it, he must be against any change whatsoever

[Tom Sawyer]

I removed and reposted my thread that announced the medical conference. One post of Lllllloyd's was destroyed in the process. In addition my post where I called you an asshole was removed... thought I'd let it go... but oh well. 

The assumption that any bill is a good one seems to be the case here... this bill was introduced by a democrat from Keene. The democrats strategy seems to be they want to replace jail with forced treatment. I don't think that is really any better... in fact probably worse. The soviets were big into "psychiatric" punishment.

I've been both directly and indirectly involved countering the drug war for 25 years... the conditions for real reform haven't been better.

Negotiating the peace is too important an opportunity to squander...

Montgomery wanted to carefully pick away at the Axis... Patton rolled right through them. The build up of public pressure is more effective then the top down, begging the police to be reasonable. Hopefully many of the inflexible bigots will be swept away by the tides change.

The cultural/demographic shift is that my generation has come to power... When you have Black Sabbath music in mainstream movies... why should we beg the Lawrence Welk crowd for anything.

[Lloyd Danforth]

My only point is that some amount of time passing in a geographical area that has decrim, without the (local) world coming to an end, can only help the arguments for re-legalization.
I would no more count on the 'Black Sabath' generation for anything, than I would bother blaming the Lawarence Welk crowd for present circumstances.

[Tom Sawyer]

How would I know what your point was Lloyd... you invested one or two snide sentences and hadn't even bothered to examine what the bill proposed.

How about Sir Paul McCartney... or Brad Pitt... or Woody Harrelson... or Willie Nelson... the list goes on... The Secret Service guarded Willie Nelson so he could get high before his performance at the White House. He told them "If Willie don't get high, Willie don't perform."

These people all have more public credibilty than some suit working for the horrible system of inJustice created. This issue is a potential crack to be worked to create much more sweeping/widespread change.

In the case of this particular bill... which I took the time to read... looks like a step backwards. By the time it is over parents would end up spending thousands of dollars if their kid got caught with a joint. The court system will be further protected because they won't even have to deal with metting out "justice". Saving the system money, paying the "treatment" system... the reason the marijuana war isn't over already is mostly because it has become a jobs program... they are making money off the suffering.

[Ryan McGuire]

some of us (like say ryan mcguire) might promote decrim ... thinking it is at least better, but not really know
i even see people advocating legalizing and taxing drugs on 420 videos on youtube

To clarify my position:

• I am an anarchist. I am for the complete abolition of government.
• I am for the complete withdrawal of government from the drug issue. I don't want legalization.
• I reject the notion that one should work within the government system to change things.
• My involvement with the 420 celebrations is a form of direct action as opposed to political action
• My immediate goal is to discourage cops (the last leg of the aggression chain) from arresting my friends (be that smoking, distributing, or growing)
• If by doing the 420 celebrations I inspire someone else to take political action (as misguided as I may think that is), that results in decriminalization in any aspect, I see that as a net good.
• I *thought* that the word decriminalization was a good word to represent my views on all levels: decriminalize usage, decriminalize possession, decriminalize distribution, decriminalize transportation, decriminalize production. Tom Sawyer's post from a few days ago made me start thinking that the common usage of the word might dramatically differ from my original usage of the word.

I'm currently thinking of new ways to express myself rather than using the word 'decriminalization'.

[Tom Sawyer]

Ryan you are a hero.

I only offered constructive input.

I think it is incredibly cool of you and Kellie to have championed this cause.

Thank you very much.

[Ryan McGuire]

I only offered constructive input.

And thanks for that! I think it's really important to continually reevaluate your message ... how do people perceive your activism etc.