Help John and I resolve our dispute

[Dave Ridley]

Okay, I am mulling over the suggestions of those of you who responded and will post a proposal here or give the proposal to John.

[Dave Ridley]

Arright here are two proposed courses of action based on the feedback from the community.

I've checked to see what it would cost to buy John a similar model to the one that failed, a camera exactly like mine actually.  My model apparently is more durable than his was, although it lacks a built-in lens guard.   It's compatable with his battery and charger and all his other accessories that are lying around. 

Here's one for sale with a claim of good condition, listed as a "buy it now," for 70 bucks. 

http://cgi.ebay.com/Sony-DCR-HC28-MiniDV-Camcorder-Video-Recorder-/230511041087?pt=Camcorders_Professional_Video_Cameras

I pay John 70 bucks to purchase this....although obviously he could use the money to buy whatever he wants.

If he does not buy a rig compatable with his accessories, he agrees to sell me some of those accessories.   His battery and charger for 20 bucks.  In that case he's receiving a total of 90 bucks.  If he buys a compatable handycam he agrees to provide me at no additional charge whatever battery it came with.  He already has a good battery, and I am only being asked to replace the failed camera itself. 

Lastly John apologies for walking off on me while I was attempting to respond to his concerns.   I've already apologized to him for not making my earlier redress efforts clearer.  His apology does not have to be public.  Maybe it seems petty to request an apology,but the way he handled this is my primary concern.  It has been the main obstacle to me taking some of the steps he's been demanding. I need this obstacle removed.   

Does this proposal above sound fair to everyone?

[Lloyd Danforth]

Why don't you just pay him and, let it go.

[John]

I had a perfectly good camera sitting right next to me in my living room when this all began.
I am not looking for money to go shopping around with.
I would like a camera delivered to me. That is what would restore me to my previous situation.

[Terror Australis]

Why don't you just pay him and, let it go.

This is probably the best solution.However John wont accept cash.All he wants is the camera so if Dave buys it off ebay and gets it delivered to John it would solve the issue.I dont think apologies will be forthcoming from either side.

If the original accessories are unharmed only the camera should be delivered.This may need a third party where they forward the camera to John,and give Dave the camera accessories.

John is not specifying which camera he wants so this means Dave gets something from the deal and John gets a working camera.

Does this make sense?

[Kat Kanning]

I think John forfeited his rights to recompense when he refused to talk to Dave about it for what, a year?  Dave made effort to make it right, which John ignored while sulking.  John at fault now. not Dave.

[Russell Kanning]

Dave
I  think your idea makes sense. John probably wants a camera that will work with his old stuph. You could also give that camera to John and see if that makes him happy. I am not sure it will.

[Dave Ridley]

I think John forfeited his rights to recompense when he refused to talk to Dave about it for what, a year?  Dave made effort to make it right, which John ignored while sulking.  John at fault now. not Dave.

In fairness to John, he didn't openly *refuse* to talk to me about it at first.  He just failed to respond to a PM proposing a partial solution.  It wasn't until this June that he did something I would call "refusing to speak" about it.  Now he is speaking about it again, which I appreciate.  The problem, again, is the combination of raising no concerns for a year, then raising them out of the blue for ninety seconds, then storming off.   It's the kind of snap decision easily forgiven, but just as easy to apologize for or at least explain. 

Terror Australis wrote:
>>I dont think apologies will be forthcoming from either side.>>

Apologies are not a problem on this end as long as they can be honestly spoken.  I thought I had already apologized to John publicly for the part I feel I got wrong, but I can't find that apology so I'll re-iterate it:

My initial PM to John suggesting a proposed solution was inadequate; it should have made more clear that I was trying to help him out with the camera issues, not just buy the battery at an inflated price.  I'm not sure if I still have the PM but obviously any failings in it could have been addressed with a reply; I'm under the impression John did receive that PM.   

With regard to delivering John a camera, that did occur to me as an option. What happens though if the camera fails a month later?  Would he hold me culpable for picking out a camera that then failed?   Judging from his handling of this dispute I have concerns that this is in fact what he would do should there be any problem.  This wouldn't be an issue if I hand him money and let him make the choice. 

[FreelanceFreedomFighter]

I have (and probably still should) kept out of this. However, I scroll up and notice that John wrote:

I had a perfectly good camera sitting right next to me in my living room when this all began.
I am not looking for money to go shopping around with.
I would like a camera delivered to me. That is what would restore me to my previous situation.

I understand your concern that if you deliver a camera and it fails in a short amount of time you will again be held liable, but from that post by John, he wants a working camera. It appears that if you were to purchase the same make/model of camera that is in the same condition (both visually and in current working order) as the one you borrowed/used, then you have done everything you can in this situation. If, after doing that, the camera were to fail while John has it (whether in 1 day, 1 month, 1 year or more) then he is in the same situation as you were in when his camera that you were borrowing failed. In other words, his camera, in his possession fails... no ones fault, just happened.

Therefore, my suggestions is: buy him the same make/model/condition-when-you-first-borrowed-it camera from somewhere (ebay maybe... perhaps some other sites have suitable replacements) and give it to him. Since he doesn't want anything to do with obtaining a replacement, I guess that is up to your discretion. Perhaps John could be persuaded to take a little time to at least look with you and agree to the camera choice. Regardless, once a replacement has been delivered... you're done...

JMNSHO... YMMV...

Take care

[Terror Australis]

I have (and probably still should) kept out of this. However, I scroll up and notice that John wrote:

I had a perfectly good camera sitting right next to me in my living room when this all began.
I am not looking for money to go shopping around with.
I would like a camera delivered to me. That is what would restore me to my previous situation.

I understand your concern that if you deliver a camera and it fails in a short amount of time you will again be held liable, but from that post by John, he wants a working camera. It appears that if you were to purchase the same make/model of camera that is in the same condition (both visually and in current working order) as the one you borrowed/used, then you have done everything you can in this situation. If, after doing that, the camera were to fail while John has it (whether in 1 day, 1 month, 1 year or more) then he is in the same situation as you were in when his camera that you were borrowing failed. In other words, his camera, in his possession fails... no ones fault, just happened.

Therefore, my suggestions is: buy him the same make/model/condition-when-you-first-borrowed-it camera from somewhere (ebay maybe... perhaps some other sites have suitable replacements) and give it to him. Since he doesn't want anything to do with obtaining a replacement, I guess that is up to your discretion. Perhaps John could be persuaded to take a little time to at least look with you and agree to the camera choice. Regardless, once a replacement has been delivered... you're done...

JMNSHO... YMMV...

Take care

Yes this.My only thought would be that Dave needs a third party to verify the camera is working,or John can claim it was delivered in a broken condition.I guess Dave would also film the camera being checked by the third party 

[KBCraig]

I'm inferring from Dave's posts that it seems to be a battery issue. Has anyone offered an informed opinion about what's wrong with the camera?

[thinkliberty]

I'm inferring from Dave's posts that it seems to be a battery issue. Has anyone offered an informed opinion about what's wrong with the camera?

Letting a battery sit unused for a long period of time can cause it to discharge and damage it, so it can no longer hold a charge...

http://www.techatplay.com/?p=61

if the charge of your lithium ion battery falls too low, the battery can get irreversibly and permanently damaged.

Does the camera work with an AC adapter?

[Dave Ridley]

After reading everyone's suggestions I'm working on a compromise but there are a couple things I need to determine first before I can offer it.

Meanwhile the existing offer remains or John can suggest a compromise of his own.  In answer to the question, the camera powers up with an AC but the eject mechanism doesn't work.

[error]

It seems John is pretty set on receiving a working camera. I think if it were me I would have picked up the one on eBay, handed it to John, and called it a day. Then perhaps sold the broken one; people will buy anything on eBay.

On a side note here, I will note that I routinely miss notifications of PMs from this and other forums to which I'm subscribed. Either the email gets dropped somewhere, or I don't see the [1] messages up top, or whatever. Case in point, yesterday I got an email from one of my hosting providers that was actually sent January 6 but not delivered until today. That's over seven months the email was sitting out in limbo somewhere. So this sort of thing happens. Therefore if I don't get a response from someone in a fairly short time, I assume they missed it and try to find another way to contact them.

[John]

I think if it were me I would have picked up the one on eBay, handed it to John, and called it a day.

I would have thought it was that simple. As I have said, I would like my camera repaired OR replaced.


(btw - After this is settled, I may or may not decide to comment on or explain some of my actions and/or inactions and how I and/or my actions and/or inactions have been characterised.)