Help John and I resolve our dispute

[KBCraig]

It seems to me that the issue of recompense has been complicated by both parties wanting apologies.

While it's okay for either or both parties to accept an apology as partial compensation, it looks like that emotional issue is in the way of the fiscal/property issue. It would be a shame for the emotional/relationship matter to get in the way of proper compensation.

Will both John and and Dave agree to put aside any demand for an apology, until the fiscal/physical property issue is settled?

Maybe after that matter is settled, the two of them can work out any matter of apology. Or not. But either way, the camera issue will be settled.

[John]

I am a HUGE advocate of both apologies and FORGIVENESS.
It feels VERY strange to me that I have been holding back, but I feel (and think) that it should not be part of this "negotiation."

There are a lot of things I like about Dave - and I have supported both him and many of his ideas.
Regardless of how this unfortunate situation turns out, I will not hate Dave. In fact - also regardless of how this turns out - I will likely continue to support him in some ways.

[Dave Ridley]

This is not currently an offer to order a camera, however John can you inform us what the make and model of your camera are?

[Dave Ridley]

grrrrr  John for God's sake how serious are you about resolving this if you're barely even willing to look at the internet thread about it.   Not that talking to you in person is any better what with all the storming off. 

I don't believe you have offered a single concession in this whole discussion, while I've offered about 3.

I like some of what you do too, but dude I hope you treat other people you interact with in the future more appropriately.

[Alex Libman]

IMHO:

John gave Dave the camera without a written agreement, therefore John is not entitled to compensation of any sort.  Depreciation value of electronic items is notoriously difficult to calculate, because it can vary drastically with details of how it is used, etc.  A just philosophy of jurisprudence is one that is most effective in reducing total "conflict costs", and attempting to divide the damages after the fact is very tedious and inaccurate.  Establishing a written agreement for even small transactions such as this can be very easy once you get used to it, and I believe both parties would have been better off knowing exactly what their responsibilities would be.

Even though Dave, having fulfilled his only firm commitment of returning the camera "as is", has no further explicit obligations toward John, Dave's reputation as a good steward of borrowed goods would inevitably suffer as the result, possibly resulting in a greater long-term loss of business than this camera is worth.  I would encourage Dave to recover his "steward of borrowed goods" reputation by voluntarily offering John any form of compensation that Dave feels would be most effective at redeeming his reputation in the eyes of potential future business partners.  An escrow service can be used to confirm that Dave is indeed in possession of the compensation he is offering, and is willing to part with it if John agrees to accept it.  If John chooses not to accept that compensation, then that is his right, in which case he will get nothing.

[John]

, however John can you inform us what the make and model of your camera are?

I have recently moved and have been very busy with lots of stuff. Not everthing is unpacked and I'm not sure which box I put the broken camera in. I will give you this info when I have it.

What is there, some sort of BIG RUSH  - all of the sudden?

[John]

John gave Dave the camera without a written agreement, therefore John is not entitled to compensation of any sort.

I was wondering who (and possibly how many) in "our community" would hold this sort of standard. Very interesting!

[Alex Libman]

I'm just an idiot smacked here from the next forum over.  Did I say something wrong?

[Tom Sawyer]

I know let's treat each other as if we are lawyers... 

The issue is bad feelings between two people... the first thing you do is say "Well golly, Im sure sorry that this has you upset... what can I do to make things right?"
You work out from that point...

Social interaction 101

[Alex Libman]

Can you try explaining that to Ian Freeman?   

[Pat K]

I know let's treat each other as if we are lawyers... 

The issue is bad feelings between two people... the first thing you do is say "Well golly, Im sure sorry that this has you upset... what can I do to make things right?"
You work out from that point...

Social interaction 101

Oh it's gone to far for this now Tom.

It's gonna have to be winner take all in a 2 out of 3 falls
wrestling extravaganza . To be held in the church parking
lot under blazing street lights,. Special guest referee will
be Merle, Time keeper at the bell can be town clerk type Bonnie.

Nominate ring gals, at your own risk.

What ya gonna do when Grafton folk run wild on you- Brother!

[KBCraig]

John gave Dave the camera without a written agreement, therefore John is not entitled to compensation of any sort.

Can you try explaining that to Ian Freeman?   

Let's see... "Alex stored his writings on Ian's server without a written agreement, therefore Alex is not entitled to compensation of any sort."

Better?

And, why aren't you dead yet?

[Dave Ridley]

John you still haven't answered the question above, which was:  what is the make and model of the camera?

In answer to *your* question, well obviously there is *not* a rush or you would not have delayed bringing this up for a year.  Are you taking issue with the fact that I am trying to move this toward a resolution?

[John]

, however John can you inform us what the make and model of your camera are?

I have recently moved and have been very busy with lots of stuff. Not everthing is unpacked and I'm not sure which box I put the broken camera in. I will give you this info when I have it.

Hello? I'll give you that info when I unpack the camera.
I'll try to make that sooner rather than later.

[Dave Ridley]

sorry my mistake regarding the make/model question.  I didn't read your message closely enough.