Stuff having nothing to do with John Connell arrested

[Russell Kanning]

some things just crack me up

[FreelanceFreedomFighter]

some things just crack me up

Yep...

[PattyLee loves dogs]

Excuse me I do not believe in character assainations, I deflect any allegation of a personal nature thrown to me. Is this the way to treat people who disagree? Again, I have read statements and nothing rises to the level to deserve the vigilante destruction of a reputation going on here. Sorry, the readers do not see the value in protecting Ethan from zealous prosecution of a social nature. I am very disappointed. Kat, John, Russel shame you have nothing that rises to the extent to excuse the public airing of this. I am out of here!

Appreciate referrals to independent ethical of individual rights types. OK? but not here

[Kat Kanning]

Huh?  Who said anything about Patty?

[Lloyd Danforth]

Just pray she keeps her promise.

[John]

shame you have nothing that rises to the extent to excuse the public airing of this.

Didn't we already have this conversation?
Are you requesting that I now go back to that original thread, about the 19 year old, and "publicly" give you all of the details of what I heard, what I saw, and conversations we had about those specifics?
Well, it ain't gonna happen.
Or isn't it better that (as you seemed to agree before) that I stopped at reporting the specific details to the kids' mom (and others who lived within that house at that time), giving a bit of info on that thread, and then letting it rest?
As we discussed earlier, I decided that I am not going to help keep the thread alive by airing any more details about the 19 year old. It seemed quite unnecessary and potentially harmful.
And, as we also discussed earlier, I have no interest in trying to destroy the 19 year old, even if I do find him to be a punky little jerk.
If you feel that you need to keep the issue alive, I'm thinking that you'll have to do so without my help.
BTW, I stopped reading that thread a long time ago. Does the 19 year old want you to still keep the issue alive time and again?

[CJS]

 I occasionally use the chat room at the free talk live bbs.It is the only chat room where anyone liberty minded hangs out that I know of , though there is a lot of stuff there I would prefer never hearing or seeing .

  One night I was chatting with the person in question and he made mention to a "cuddle party" he was attending in a few days . What he described a cuddle party to be is not something I would ever allow a 12 - 13 Y/O to attend .

He basically stated he enjoyed physical contact with preteens and early teens. There is no way anyone could justify that behavior to me . I also think that airing that kind of behavior in public is the exact right thing to do. Public ostracizing  is the best way , beats all hell out of calling the state right ? BTW that was the last time I will ever communicate with him .

For what it's worth , there are at least two other activists who have publicly stated that "age of consent laws"  are arbitrary and that they would date well under the legal age as it is now. Both of them have stated these beliefs in one or more forums , just something to think about. `

[MaineShark]

For what it's worth , there are at least two other activists who have publicly stated that "age of consent laws"  are arbitrary...

Um, they are.  By definition.

If they were based upon something absolute, they would all be the same.

Since age of consent, just in the US, varies from 12 to 18, depending upon which side of various imaginary lines you are standing on, and other factors, it's (by definition) arbitrary.  In some states, if you get a girl pregnant, and are willing to marry her, it's suddenly legal, even at younger ages.  In some states (eg, Colorado), there is literally no minimum age, as long as marriage is involved.

That's pretty arbitrary.

Whether there should be some particular age, is a different issue, but AoC laws are horrifically arbitrary in the US, and most other places (in some countries, any sex outside of government-approved marriage is a crime, regardless of age).

Joe

[Kat Kanning]

Split this so John's arrest could actually be discussed, per John's request.

[CJS]

 @ John . I am sorry if I hijacked your thread . I am sure your getting jerked over and maybe the guy who accused you has a LEO in his family or something . I hope it is settled quickly for you.

@ Kat . I am sorry if I spoke when I should not have , as I am not in HN and no one has meet me so I try and post as little as possible .

I just felt that yourself and the others directly involved in this situation handled it exactly right and with my added info maybe those that disagreed might change their minds. The chat-box convo I mention left me pretty creeped out FWIW .

@ MaineShark  / or Joe if I may .

   I should have said there are a couple of grown male activists who have stated publicly that they feel no age difference should be prohibited instead of saying they disagree with some arbitrary number

I honestly am not trying to troll with a " who will build the roads " deal .I truly  wonder how a free society would deal with men / women who are attracted to children and are willing to act on those impulses.

You and I went back and fourth a couple times in that troll thread in the F/K forum  if you remember . The guy who was pisseed he was set up buy a cop to meet a 13 Y/O girl . I will state flat out a 26 Y/O who wants to hook up with 13 Y/O is a problem in any society , just my opinion . You and others seem to think it's something not so carved in stone.

I just wonder how a free society would handle this type of person ... honestly I feel in this instance there has to be some arbitrary age / rule . I will agree that the system we have now is horribly broken and harms many innocent people, but that does not change the fact that some people are predators. I also personally feel grown men who say things like it's not always a bad thing and some girls / women are capable of making this decision at younger ages are justifying something they know is wrong.

I respect your opinion Joe ... and I swear I am not trolling but what do you think is the correct way to handle a situation like this ?

[AntonLee]

Frankly, a 13 year old going out with a 26 year old seems like a problem between the 13 year old, the 26 year old and the 13 year old's friends and family.

I would not want to pay to settle family issues like that.  If I felt that my 13 year old was mature enough to get into a relationship with a 26 year old, that would be up to me to 'bless' or 'forbid'.   It would not be up to some group of people in the so-called state capital to decide at what age I should allow my child to get into a relationship with someone else.  It's not any of their business.

It'd be very easy for me to spout 'libertarian' ideals for children, such as the fact that so called 'adults' and so called 'children' have been entering into relationships since the beginning of time.  Some cultures even today marry at a young age and some with no consent from the so called children.  Is it up to me to dictate to others my personal beliefs on the matter?  Perhaps, if I was involved due to my children being involved.

I understand some people will not be happy with a relationship of a 13 year old and a 26 year old.  You have the right to ostracize those people and inform others of the behavior you don't care for.  Some will heed your warnings, others will see you as a bigot or busybody.  Either way, it's not up to me to pay for some police interaction with a private agreement between individuals.

[MaineShark]

I should have said there are a couple of grown male activists who have stated publicly that they feel no age difference should be prohibited instead of saying they disagree with some arbitrary number

No age difference should be absolutely prohibited.

If find it unlikely that there's an 8-year-old who is capable of consenting to sex, but if one exists, I have no authority to intercede.

You and I went back and fourth a couple times in that troll thread in the F/K forum  if you remember . The guy who was pisseed he was set up buy a cop to meet a 13 Y/O girl . I will state flat out a 26 Y/O who wants to hook up with 13 Y/O is a problem in any society , just my opinion . You and others seem to think it's something not so carved in stone.

I just wonder how a free society would handle this type of person ... honestly I feel in this instance there has to be some arbitrary age / rule . I will agree that the system we have now is horribly broken and harms many innocent people, but that does not change the fact that some people are predators. I also personally feel grown men who say things like it's not always a bad thing and some girls / women are capable of making this decision at younger ages are justifying something they know is wrong.

The problem with arbitrary rules is you either have to set the bar so low that you let some predation happen, or you set it so high, that you are attacking innocent people.

Sex without consent is rape.  Whether that's because someone holds a knife to the victim's throat, or drugs the victim's drink, or takes advantage of someone who is too young to actually give informed consent.

If a woman has one drink, and has sex with her date, did he take advantage of her?  How about two drinks?  Three?  If she was actually intoxicated, and he took advantage of the situation, it's rape, but how do you determine that?

I respect your opinion Joe ... and I swear I am not trolling but what do you think is the correct way to handle a situation like this ?

If someone thinks he did wrong, they can bring suit against him, just like for any other wrong.  If a 20-year-old stands up and say, "I didn't know what sex really meant, when I said 'yes,' so I was raped," he or she will be laughed out of the room.  If a 10-year-old says the same thing, any sensible arbitrator is going to be taking a good long look at the situation, interviewing him/her and the older individual in detail, and trying to determine what the facts are.

There won't be some hard-and-fast age, below which sex is verboten, and above which sex is perfectly okay, due to the difference of a day.  Instead, there will be social standards.  Look at the situation in this thread.  It's clear that those around this situation were quite uncomfortable, and they expressed that to the individual involved.  If your behavior makes the typical member of society uncomfortable, you may want to consider what would happen if the other participant had a change of heart and complained.

Obviously, when a 26-year-old gets involved with a 13-year-old, most folks are going to think something is amiss.  Those who can actually be swayed by such things, will be.  Those who can't, are going to be predators, regardless of the rules.  We can't make the world perfectly safe.

Joe

[CJS]

 
Thanks to Anton and Joe for the civil discourse . This can be a volatile topic. 

I agree that the system is horribly broken concerning this issue . I have a good friend who is now a registered sex offender list because he relieved himself in an alley after he and friends closed a local bar , talk about a nightmare.

I will also say that I do not disagree with much of what either of you said other than intimate relationships between adults and children should be allowed if the family thinks it's ok . There is just so much more to it . We would see 10 Y/O girls basically being sold for a dowry if that were allowed .

I have said this before , I have had my mind / opinion changed about things I thought were cut in stone by the opinions shared here , but I do not think I will be changing my opinion about this specific issue . The simple truth is their are people who do unspeakable harm to young children and I think in any society there will be some measure taken to protect them .

So until I can sit with you guys in some social environment in NH when I get there I will stop discussing this kind of thing in your forum ... it's one of those issues that can be easily twisted by some statist fascist pig to make every one look bad.

Peace  and again I do appreciate the friendly convo here .. never get attacked at the underground.

[Becky Thatcher]

Sorry, the readers do not see the value in protecting Ethan from zealous prosecution of a social nature.

I believe the readers, correctly, see more value in protecting children from socially retarded adults.  And that protection entails outing individuals who engage in unacceptable behavior...especially after having been told that said behavior was unacceptable.

The esoteric arguments by master debaters about age of consent, blah blah blah, used to justify and make excuses for Ethan's behavior make my head hurt.  I'm just glad to have friends who are willing to go out on a limb and give me, as a parent, the information I need to keep my child safe from "cuddlers" like Ethan.  So thanks, Kat and Russell, for standing up in the face of some unfriendly fire for something you feel is right.   

[KBCraig]

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/article_55894a82-e35d-11df-89a1-00127992bc8b.html