I am curious.

[littlehawk]

Hmmm....some very typical posts with the same m.o.

I smell bacon.

Anyone up for a pig roast?

[bwirth1999]

Not a cop promise you there. I do however come from a cop filled background.     I WILL be moving to NH in June, I just have a hard time understanding the distrust many have with law enforcment

Ok maybe this will help appease me. 


What do YOU want to see as government, your liberty and the people who enforce the rules/laws which are set forth.

[bwirth1999]

Or are you saying government and laws are for schmucks?


ok then....  so... how's the weather?




Edit: 2:21.   Ok why did it go quiet?  Do you seriously hate talking to people whos opinion differs?    I want my opinion to change, but that is only goin  to happen if you all explain to me what is so bad about the cops and government up there.   If you're just tired of talking about this, then just delete the post and I'll shut my mouth and abide by your rules like a good little boy.

[Lloyd Danforth]

Many here understand that governments have no legitimate authority over individuals.  Others brought here by the FSP are looking for what is expressed in the Statement of Intent:

Statement of Intent

"I hereby state my solemn intent to move to the state of New Hampshire. Once there, I will exert the fullest practical effort toward the creation of a society in which the maximum role of civil government is the protection of life, liberty, and property"

The greater part of what all governments do is way beyond that. Cops in particular are predators. For the most part they are Law Enforcement Officers, not, Peace Officers. They don't obey many of the laws they enforce and they gang up against the public who are robbed to pay them, and they lie to everyone.  I'll give you that 98% of them ruin it for the rest of them.

[MaineShark]

First off, immigrants do not lower crime, they may not negativley impact it a great deal, but I can tell you that a majority of our crime is done by illegals and those who come from a lower education background..  If you can provide non-biased information showing these statistics, I would love to be able to prove this opposite of the media, but it can't be done.

You made the initial claim that immigrants are causing the crime.  Prove your claim.

As for replying to the " shouldn't the police lower crime rate if they are doing a good job." remark. You are asking questions which can't be answered.  Police do not lower crime.  Policies which the larger government put in place (and can remove) are what will affect the crime rate, and these people in general.   The police are just the guys who took the crappy job of trying to enforce the laws. (bad laws or not).

So, why does NH have less crime than FL?

I am not going to debate whether or not cop are criminals with you.  You seem to want anarchy in the street, and you want to do anything you want with no recourse.  You are saying that there is no need to for someone to make sure rules/laws are being followed.

There is but one actual law that a just society needs: do not initiate force/fraud against any other.

And anyone can enforce it.

Putting armed thugs, taken from the lowest dregs of society, into a position of authority over others is predation, not protection.

Hey show me one instance that total anarchy in a large society has worked, and I will bow to you and a gree with everything you say from now on.

Almost all of human history.

Statism is a new invention.  Only a few thousand years old.

The way you look at the people who take on the responsibility to do their best to make sure you and your family stay protected at all times is scary to me.  It's down right disturbing.

I don't look down on people who do their best to make sure me and my family are safe.  I look down on cops.

I prefer a society with morals and rules which all can live by and abide by.    There will have to be people to make sure those rules are being followed, since people in general cannot be trusted to police themselves due to our innability to care about anybody but ourselves.

And yet the cops, chosen for their willingness to blindly obey any order they are given, without ever considering the morality of their actions, who demonstrate the worst that exists within humanity, will "police" the rest of us?

Mafiosos behave with more scruples than cops.

those of us who follow the rules given to us will NEVER have an issue with cops.

There's no one in America who isn't a multiple felon.  The laws are written so that absolutely everyone has broken many of them, to give the cops some method to arrest you, any time they want.  And if they don't happen to know which you broke, they'll just plant evidence of whatever they want to charge you with.

Joe

[littlehawk]

Shame on Joe. No cites or sources to back YOUR claims? C'mon brother...what good for that goose? 

[MaineShark]

Shame on Joe. No cites or sources to back YOUR claims? C'mon brother...what good for that goose? 

The one making a claim is responsible for providing evidence.  I refuted his claim.  As soon as he provides evidence, then I am responsible for providing my own.

Not like the evidence to support my refutation is any major secret; it was even posted on this forum, a few months back, IIRC.

Joe

[John]

The police are just the guys who took the crappy job of trying to enforce the laws. (bad laws or not).

Why (in so many places) are there waiting lists years long for the "crappy jobs" like police hero and fire hero?

I don't want to pile on but its getting pretty hard not to.

[littlehawk]

OH Bullshit Joe!
You always use that copout. You state shit but never back it up.

[MaineShark]

OH Bullshit Joe!
You always use that copout. You state shit but never back it up.

Sure, I do.

You, of all posters here, are in no position to levy such charges.

Joe

[littlehawk]

just ONE of your millions:

"There's no one in America who isn't a multiple felon. "

[littlehawk]

 bwirth says" Hey show me one instance that total anarchy in a large society has worked, and I will bow to you and a gree with everything you say from now on.


Joe answer: Almost all of human history.

Good answer? Joe, people are here just having discussions. It's not a full fledged debate with timers and judges and evidence and sources sited for every little thing. Why not show  him one instance...a link, a quote etc. Have I not offered links, video etc? Yes I refuse to keep jumping through hoops for people who will never be satisfied but you on the otherhand always exercise the 5th when challenged. Why not put aside you homemade laws and try to communicate a bit. 

[MaineShark]

just ONE of your millions:

"There's no one in America who isn't a multiple felon. "

Millions?  You can't even speak truthfully, when you're trying to claim that someone else is being less than truthful.  It's truly sad.

In any case, the statement is patently true.  There are hundreds of thousands of deranged laws in this country.  No one can avoid breaking them.  Often without even knowing they're doing it.  Like this woman, facing major felony charges for recording the obstructions that the police were throwing up when she attempted to report an officer who sexually assaulted her.

Think she knew she would be facing down a decade and a half in prison, and was just such a hard-ass that she didn't care?  Or did she not even realize that they had a felony to charge her with?

There are so many laws out there that you cannot possibly obey them all, all the time.

bwirth says" Hey show me one instance that total anarchy in a large society has worked, and I will bow to you and a gree with everything you say from now on.


Joe answer: Almost all of human history.

Good answer? Joe, people are here just having discussions. It's not a full fledged debate with timers and judges and evidence and sources sited for every little thing. Why not show  him one instance...a link, a quote etc.

I did.  I showed him tens of thousands of years of such instances.  Statism dates from the agricultural revolution, when farmers were tied to the land, and couldn't just leave if some thug moved in and started demanding tribute, because they'd lose their year's crop.  So, if one thug wants X amount in tribute, and another thug promises to keep the first thug away for half that, they jump on the deal.  Pretty soon, they have kings and armies and cops.

Want some more?  Pennsylvania was mostly anarchic for a good while.  The Icelandic Commonwealth is another recent example.

Have I not offered links, video etc? Yes I refuse to keep jumping through hoops for people who will never be satisfied but you on the otherhand always exercise the 5th when challenged. Why not put aside you homemade laws and try to communicate a bit.

I probably provide more citations than any dozen typical posters, so your charge is without merit.

And I provide actual citations, not just "some guy on the Internet says this, so it must be true!" nonsense.

Joe

[bwirth1999]

First off, immigrants do not lower crime, they may not negativley impact it a great deal, but I can tell you that a majority of our crime is done by illegals and those who come from a lower education background..  If you can provide non-biased information showing these statistics, I would love to be able to prove this opposite of the media, but it can't be done.

You made the initial claim that immigrants are causing the crime.  Prove your claim.

As for replying to the " shouldn't the police lower crime rate if they are doing a good job." remark. You are asking questions which can't be answered.  Police do not lower crime.  Policies which the larger government put in place (and can remove) are what will affect the crime rate, and these people in general.   The police are just the guys who took the crappy job of trying to enforce the laws. (bad laws or not).

So, why does NH have less crime than FL?

I am not going to debate whether or not cop are criminals with you.  You seem to want anarchy in the street, and you want to do anything you want with no recourse.  You are saying that there is no need to for someone to make sure rules/laws are being followed.

There is but one actual law that a just society needs: do not initiate force/fraud against any other.

And anyone can enforce it.

Putting armed thugs, taken from the lowest dregs of society, into a position of authority over others is predation, not protection.

Hey show me one instance that total anarchy in a large society has worked, and I will bow to you and a gree with everything you say from now on.

Almost all of human history.

Statism is a new invention.  Only a few thousand years old.

The way you look at the people who take on the responsibility to do their best to make sure you and your family stay protected at all times is scary to me.  It's down right disturbing.

I don't look down on people who do their best to make sure me and my family are safe.  I look down on cops.

I prefer a society with morals and rules which all can live by and abide by.    There will have to be people to make sure those rules are being followed, since people in general cannot be trusted to police themselves due to our innability to care about anybody but ourselves.

And yet the cops, chosen for their willingness to blindly obey any order they are given, without ever considering the morality of their actions, who demonstrate the worst that exists within humanity, will "police" the rest of us?

Mafiosos behave with more scruples than cops.

those of us who follow the rules given to us will NEVER have an issue with cops.

There's no one in America who isn't a multiple felon.  The laws are written so that absolutely everyone has broken many of them, to give the cops some method to arrest you, any time they want.  And if they don't happen to know which you broke, they'll just plant evidence of whatever they want to charge you with.

Joe
[/quote


I see....  about the only other statement i would have to make then, is... You say almost all of human history people have lived in total Anarchy?   I could be mistaken, but i am pretty sure, that no matter what society you bring up, there has always been a  leader, and that leader has always had his... "thugs" who make sure the followers of the leader did what was required to be a part of said society. 
   Could those leaders have been corrupt??  Most likely at some point it happened, as they say... things never change.

However, judging by the comment i have read, you  are suggesting that anarchy would work in todays world.   In some instances it may, but then you have to consider many things which require a leader of some sort to  take care of, or a group of leaders who happen to be REALLY good at what they do.  Think of all of the things which are taken for granted today. Food, power/heat, fuel, health, clothing, etc....   Can many of these items be replaced or lived without?? You bet!   Would you be willing to give them up?  Could you support yourself and family without the things which governments and those like them provide?   

     I do not support our current form of government or many of it's laws.   It may seem the opposite, but I look at things differently maybe.   I  viewmost of these things as necessary evils, can they be done away with? Yes, but at great sacrifice to our current way of life.   Anarchy will never work, as there will always be those who want to lead, and will lead in some form or another. 

The smarter and stronger of us will always take charge and lead, and maybe make tough decissions fo others either not willing or unable.  Someone will always lead, and someone will always follow.   With that said Anarchy in it's literal form is impossible.   
   
Should government go back to running the things they are supposed to run and leave us be?  Yes, I feel most people are more than capable of living their own lives without need of oppressive represntatives telling them what is right and wrong, and how to walk...

   

[bwirth1999]

The police are just the guys who took the crappy job of trying to enforce the laws. (bad laws or not).

Why (in so many places) are there waiting lists years long for the "crappy jobs" like police hero and fire hero?

I don't want to pile on but its getting pretty hard not to.

I don't know if you're for police/fire, or against with this comment.


If for:  I made this statement as more of a bait and trap than anything.  As it would seem that a great majority of those here seem to hate the police, and in certain circumstances I don't blame them, but taking instances from bad cops, (and there are alot of them) and them generalising all police in the same manor is as bad as when I said that illegals create the majority of the crime.   It is a fact that many or most illegals who come to this country end up commiting violent crimes against citizens, as well as themselves.  That ofcourse is due to things many times, which are out of the persons control.
     Most people who become police start the journey with good intentions, they don't always end up as such.

If against:  Apparently cops are scumbags or worse, so it must be a crappy job is the dregs of society are applying for it..yes?