Liberty Dollar protest!

[KBCraig]

All that aside, in today's news:

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Feds-seek-7M-in-privately-apf-641808269.html?x=0&.v=1

RALEIGH, N.C. (AP) -- Federal prosecutors on Monday tried to take a hoard of silver "Liberty Dollars" worth about $7 million that authorities say was invented by an Indiana man to compete with U.S. currency.

Bernard von NotHaus, 67, was convicted last month in federal court in Statesville on conspiracy and counterfeiting charges for making and selling the currency, which he promoted as inflation-proof competition for the U.S. dollar.

His Charlotte-based lawyer, Aaron Michel, is appealing that verdict. He wrote in a motion filed Thursday that von NotHaus did nothing wrong because he didn't try to pass the Liberty Dollars off as U.S. dollars.

"The prosecutors successfully painted Mr. von NotHaus in a false light and now the U.S. Attorney responsible for the prosecution is painting the case in a false light, saying that it establishes that private voluntary barter currency is illegal," Michel wrote.

The trial was scheduled to resume Monday in Statesville. The case involves more than five tons of Liberty Dollars and precious metals seized from a warehouse, which the government wants to take by forfeiture, according to federal prosecutors and Michel.

[Lloyd Danforth]

Gotch Ya!

[Free libertarian]

Evan got a gram of silver, I got a breakfast sandwich...guess I'm a domestic terrorist now. 

[John]

Ya, I was thinking the same as Lloyd.

This.

[John]

I am excited about the renewed "Tilting at Windmills"

10/4 that.

And this.

[karenijohnson]

NOTHAUS Fate of 'Liberty' coins on hold
(this guy "passed the coins off as "the new 10 dollar coin"  .. . See the video")
sounds like counterfeiting to me, and anyone else......


//
http://www2.statesville.com/news/2011/apr/05/fate-liberty-coins-hold-ar-922870/

Published: April 05, 2011

Home / news / local /
Fate of 'Liberty' coins on hold
By Jim Mcnally

Parties for both sides of a federal trial in Statesville, which attracted national attention last month, were back in court this week to decide what to do with a large number of silver coins.

The trial, which ended March 18, resulted in the conviction of Indiana man Bernard von NotHaus for a number of charges related to his minting and distributing of silver coins. According to a three-count indictment against von NotHaus and three co-defendants, von NotHaus was the ring leader of a group called the National Organization for the Repeal  of the Federal Reserve and Internal Revenue Codes (NORFED), whose intentions were to use their coinage --- called a Liberty Dollar --- "to mix ... into the current money of the United States."

The indictment alleged that NORFED had been in existence since 1998 and the organization's intentions were for the Liberty Dollar to be put into circulation among legal coins and paper notes so as "to limit reliance on, and to compete with, United States currency."

NORFED, according to the indictment, "views United States currency as worthless" and was motivated by that "core belief" to disrupt the U.S. monetary system.

Von NotHaus, 67, was accused of designing the Liberty Dollar, which on the front depicts a bust of Lady Liberty, the word "Liberty" across the top and the words "Trust In God" at the nape of the bust's neck. The front is also dated.

The back of the coin looks a bit less official. Along with a likeness of what appears to be the Statue of Liberty torch, it is struck with the phone number, 800-NEW DOLLAR and the website, libertydollar.org (which has since been taken offline).

But the other markings on the back of the coin are among the things that got von NotHaus and the others in trouble. Specifically it was "$" --- the dollar sign --- named in the indictment.

That line-crossed "S," the indictment read in part, "signifies and is universally known as the symbol for the United States dollar."

The coins, which were struck in denominations of $5, $10, $20 and $50, also resemble U.S. coinage in size, the indictment alleged.

In summary the indictment alleged that von NotHaus and his three co-defendants "did falsely make, forge and counterfeit" the coins; "did make, utter and pass, and attempt to make, utter and pass, a coin of silver intended for use as currency money, in resemblance of genuine coins of the United States;" and that the four were conspiring in the enterprise of the aforementioned.

After von NotHaus' conviction, U.S. Attorney Anne Tompkins said the matter was not one to be taken lightly.

"Attempts to undermine the legitimate currency of this country are simply a unique form of domestic terrorism," Tompkins said in a release. "While these forms of anti-government activities do not involve violence, they are every bit as insidious and represent a clear and present danger to the economic stability of this country."

The indictment, however, also included the government's belief that von NotHaus should be forced to forfeit all the materials involved in the carrying out of the illegal activity --- namely the coins, which according to a press release from the U.S. Attorney's office, are "currently valued at nearly $7 million."

On Monday, U.S. District Judge Richard L. Voorhees heard from both sides of that argument and will make a decision on the matter soon.

Von NotHaus is currently out on bail while he awaits a sentencing hearing, which likely will not be for at least five months, according to the U.S. Attorney's office.

A trial date and site for the three co-defendants in the case --- William Kevin Innes, Sarah Jane Bledsoe and Rachelle L. Moseley --- has not yet been set, according to the U.S. Attorney's office, and it is unclear at this time if the trial will be held in Statesville.

Statesville Record & Landmark © Copyright 2011 Media General Communications Holdings, LLC. A Media General company.

//

[karenijohnson]

More info on NOTHAUS >>  FIGHTING about seized precious metals ...
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1373443/Feds-try-7m-worth-silver-Liberty-Dollars.html#

Wednesday, Apr 06 2011 6AM  9°C 9AM 15°C 5-Day Forecast
Feds go after $7m-worth of silver 'Liberty Dollars' after maker is convicted on counterfeit charges

By Daily Mail Reporter
Last updated at 12:12 AM on 5th April 2011

   

Federal prosecutors are planning to take ownership of $7million worth of silver "Liberty Dollars" that they say was invented by an Indiana man to compete with U.S. currency.

Bernard von NotHaus, 67, from Indiana, was last month convicted of conspiracy and counterfeiting charges for making and selling the currency, which he touted as inflation-proof competition for the U.S. dollar.

More than five tons of Liberty Dollars and precious metals was seized from a warehouse and the Feds now want to take them by forfeiture.
Resemblance? The Libery Dollar featuring the words 'Trust In God.' U.S. currency features the phrase 'In God We Trust'

Resemblance? The Libery Dollar featuring the words 'Trust In God.' U.S. currency features the phrase 'In God We Trust'

Convicted: Bernard von NotHaus was found guilty of conspiracy and counterfeiting

Convicted: Bernard von NotHaus was found guilty of conspiracy and counterfeiting

Von NotHaus's lawyer Aaron Michel is appealing against the conviction, saying von NotHaus did nothing wrong because he didn't try to pass the Liberty Dollars off as U.S. currency.

Von NotHaus began issuing Liberty Dollars in 1998. Nine years later the headquarters of his group, the National Organization for the Repeal of the Federal Reserve and Internal Revenue Code, were raided, along with the Sunshine Mint in Coeur D'Alene, Idaho, where the coins were made.

Federal prosecutors successfully argued that von NotHaus was trying to pass off the silver coins as U.S. currency.

Liberty Dollars come in denominations of 5, 10, 20, and 50. The money features a dollar sign, the word "dollar" and the motto "Trust in God," similar to the "In God We Trust" that appears on U.S. coins.

After von NotHaus was convicted, U.S. Attorney Anne Tompkins said: 'Attempts to undermine the legitimate currency of this country are simply a unique form of domestic terrorism.'

Von NotHaus argued that it's not illegal to create currency to privately trade goods and services.

He also has said his organization took pains to say the Liberty Dollars shouldn't be called "coins" and shouldn't be presented as government-minted cash.

The Liberty Dollars were a means to help keep currency in local communities by creating networks of merchants and consumers who used the money, he said.

Several regions all over the U.S. have experimented with local currency, but laws restrict them from looking like U.S. bills or from being passed off as money printed by the government.

The concerns raised by von NotHaus and his group resonate among some state lawmakers. About a dozen states have legislation that would allow them to produce their own currency backed by gold or silver in the event of hyperinflation striking the U.S. dollar.

Von NotHaus's organisation has been followed for years by the Southern Poverty Law Centre, a group that tracks political extremism.

Before the government began its investigation into von NotHaus, Southern Poverty Law Centre was raising concerns about the popularity of Liberty Dollars among fringe groups on the Far Right.

Mark Potok, a spokesman for the group, said: 'He's playing on a core idea of the radical right, that evil bankers in the Federal Reserve are ripping you off by controlling the money supply.

'He very much exists in the world of the anti-government patriot movement, whatever he may say. That's who his customers are.'

Von NotHaus is free on bond. If the conviction against him is upheld, he faces up to 25 years in prison and a fine of $750,000. No date has been set yet for his sentencing.



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1373443/Feds-try-7m-worth-silver-Liberty-Dollars.html#
//

[Russell Kanning]

ah remember the good old days when $10 would get you an ounce of silver?
now the government is counterfeiting their own money and I can't buy as much with the ones I kept
boy am I wary about investing in this "US dollar" thing again
it's a conspiracy

[KBCraig]

But the other markings on the back of the coin are among the things that got von NotHaus and the others in trouble. Specifically it was "$" --- the dollar sign --- named in the indictment.

That line-crossed "S," the indictment read in part, "signifies and is universally known as the symbol for the United States dollar."

They should probably warn Canada and Mexico -- or any of the other dozens of countries that use that same symbol for their own dollars or pesos.

[karenijohnson]

ATTORNEY analyzes NOTHAUS mistakes
http://www.lewrockwell.com/rounds/rounds34.1.html
..


    Liberty Dollar Trial and Coin Value

by Bill Rounds

What Liberty Dollar Should Have Learned From The Godfather

Don Corleone doesn't ask a second favor once he's been refused the first. Instead, he will make you an offer that you can't refuse.

Godfather Liberty Dollar Coin Value

The recent conviction of Bernard von Nothaus for making and circulating Liberty Dollars has little to do with tyranny and oppression, and a lot more to do with tactical and practical mistakes made by the Liberty Dollar organization. Although many would argue that tyranny is the logical and philosophical cause of Liberty Dollar's trouble, for the most part there are practical ways to exercise liberty, avoid making powerful enemies, and avoid incurring their wrath.
Philosophical Arguments Don't Address Actual Power

I am not addressing the philosophical or ideological arguments for two reasons. First, the state of monetary law is almost nonsensical. Court opinions, federal statutes and the Constitution are logically inconsistent with one another. As a practical matter it is worthless to try and argue with the reasoning behind arbitrary and capricious rules.

Until a law is changed, it is not recommended to break it, even if you think the source of its power is illegitimate. I imagine that a lot of characters thought that the source of Don Corleone's power was illegitimate too. But that does not change the fact that his power was very real (in the movie) and that such power must be respected.

That power will endure until enough people are convinced otherwise. So, even though Dr. Vieira clearly reveals the inconsistent and tyrannical nature of current monetary law (See Dr. Vieira's Pieces of Eight pg. 1532), we will assume for the sake of argument that such laws are legitimate because we must deal with the actual power that they have.
Must Be Persuasive

Second, unlike Libya, the US is still a country where we are free to persuade anyone to change any law or replace any political leader. Failure to convince enough people is more a function of poor salesmanship than tyranny. Many Austrian economists have historically been unsuccessful at persuading courts, legislatures and neighbors. They are getting better. In any strategy, including legal strategy, it is important not to dismiss the actual power that your opponent has. Doing so will limit practical solutions.
Liberty Dollar Fraud

The Liberty Dollar case was about fraud. It was not about using gold or silver in commerce, it wasn't about protecting government power, or even about using private money. There are all kinds of alternate currencies in circulation in the US. Ithaca Hours, Potomacs, gift certificates, and Chuck E. Cheese tokens can all be used to barter and transact instead of legal tender coins and bills. It is not illegal for a dentist to take payment in chickens or in sacks of potatoes. Liberty Dollar was investigated and indicted because it could, and did, fool some people into thinking it was something that it was not.

Liberty-Dollars-coin value
Resemblance to Legal Tender Coins

Two of the statutes that the jury thought were violated were 18 USC 485 and 18 USC 486. In a nutshell, to violate these statutes, someone has to make and use medallions that resemble official US government coin and intend to fool someone into thinking it is official US government coins. It is very unlikely that well informed Austrian economists, or even Ben Bernanke and friends, were fooled or were intended to be fooled.

Unfortunately, the jury pool and the American public are not always well informed Austrian economists. Thus the likelihood that someone might be fooled by the Liberty Dollar is much higher, and the intent can only be determined by other actions. The Department of Justice (DoJ) thought that there were too many elements of the Liberty Dollar design that might confuse an unsuspecting person and that there was intent to fool some people. A unanimous jury of peers agreed.

liberty-dollar coin value
Notable Similarities Between Liberty Dollar Medallions and US Government Coins

Engraved with a "$" symbol;

Engraved with the word "Dollar";

"$5 Liberty Dollar" is the same size as a Kennedy 1/2 Dollar;

"Trust In God" engraved on Liberty Dollars;

Engraved with the word "Liberty";

Several images similar to those commonly used in US coins are engraved on Liberty Dollars;

"USA" is engraved on some Liberty Dollars.

To see all of those similarities, check out the Indictment, paragraphs 35-44. This was apparently enough to show the resemblance.

Liberty Dollar Indictment

Liberty Dollar Jury Verdict Form

Liberty Dollar Coin Value Dime
Problems With Liberty Dollar Coin Value

The most serious issue with Liberty Dollars is probably the coin value and the denomination minted on the medallion. The value of the metal in the Liberty Dollar medallions was below what appeared to be the Federal Reserve Note (FRN) value minted on their face. The "$10" medallion contained less than $10 in FRNs of silver at the time they were in circulation. When the value of the silver in the medallion rose above $10, the medallions were recalled, and recast with a "$20" denomination. The same process would occur if the FRN value of the metal again exceeded the minted denomination.

It would not be hard for someone in the lowest quartile of intelligence to be offered a "$10" Liberty Dollar and think that the intrinsic metal value was $10 in FRN and that it might be a legal tender coin. The prosecutors and a unanimous jury agreed.
Some Actions Could Show Intent

A very important element of the indictment is the intent to defraud. There is no criminal trial in the world where anybody knows for certain the intent of anyone else. We can only deduce intent from surrounding circumstances. Therefore, like any jury trial, it is a complete crapshoot as to what the jury is going to think the intent of the defendant is. The politicians may consider gambling a harmless vice, but it is dangerous when your liberty is on the line.

Liberty Dollar actively encouraged merchants who traded Liberty Dollars to give them to unsuspecting customers as change. An unsuspecting customer might receive a "$10 Liberty Dollar" medallion instead of $10 in Federal Reserve Notes. The value of the silver in those medallions was less than $10 FRN, so the unsuspecting customer would receive less than the value they thought they were receiving. It appears that such an exchange was viewed by the prosecution, and the jury, as evidence of an intent to defraud.
Banking Is Boring

Another critical error might have been the amount of money that was being made by Liberty Dollar and its affiliates. Banking and bullion are supposed to be boring businesses. It is very difficult to make exciting profits on coin value. Liberty Dollar profits might have drawn attention. There is nothing wrong with finding a way to make enormous profits trading on coin value. You just need to be prepared to explain yourself very well. Liberty Dollar could not explain themselves well enough.

Avoid Trial

Given the unpredictability of a jury, it is advisable to avoid a jury trial in most situations. Only 2% of cases that are filed are ever brought before a jury. The certainty of an agreement is far easier to manage. Since the vast majority of US citizens are unconvinced of the fundamental flaws of our monetary policy, Liberty Dollar would have been wise to avoid a trial as well. They were given a chance to do just that.

The Department of Justice and the Mint issued a warning that they would prosecute the use and distribution of Liberty Dollars in 2006. Consider this like Don Corleone "politely" asking a favor. Rather than grant this favor to the very people who have the power to indict you, Liberty Dollar refused this favor, and were quite obnoxious about it, even though their legal counsel advised them to take it seriously.

Godfather Liberty Dollar Coin Value

Certainly Don Corleone would have followed up with an offer they couldn't refuse. The DoJ did too. The offer was an indictment which Liberty Dollar couldn't refuse. Had they complied with this "favor" they probably would not have had any legal problems.
What the Case Was Not About

Importantly, this case is not about trading or bartering in silver, gold, chickens or potatoes. It is not about offering or accepting silver instead of Federal Reserve notes at a store. It is not about the warehouse receipts for silver or about digital gold or silver transactions at all. It was not about the fact that Liberty Dollar was minting medallions out of silver to distribute into the marketplace. In fact, minting their own medallions was completely unnecessary because there are already many, many kinds of silver medallions that are perfectly legal to own, use, trade, barter with, and utter like Buffalo Silver Rounds, Canadian Silver Maple Leafs, Austrian Philharmonics, and Sunshine Mint medallions. All of these activities are far from the kinds of things that anyone would prosecute. Especially if they are taking care not to upset powerful enemies.
Conclusion

Like the Hollywood movie executive, in the Godfather, Liberty Dollar was asked a favor. Mr. Woltz was asked to cast Johnny Fontaine in a movie. Liberty Dollar was asked to stop using their confusing silver medallions. When Woltz refused, he woke up with an unpleasant surprise in his bed. He couldn't refuse to cast Johnny in the movie. When Liberty Dollar refused the favor, they woke up with an indictment. They couldn't refuse to stop using Liberty Dollar coins.

In his passion and zeal, Mr. von Nothaus failed to assess the power of his opponent intelligently. It ended up costing him dearly. Had he gone around using already existing silver rounds and offering them as payment instead of his own minted version, he would have been miles away from any legal trouble. Had he used medallions that contained none of the state regalia, like "USA", "$10," and other familiar markings, he probably would have remained free although if he had used actual legal tender like Kahre he still may have had issues. Had he transacted only with warehouse receipts for silver bullion, he would have avoided legal trouble. If he had only traded digital silver like with GoldMoney, backed by bullion in the vault, he could have avoided legal issues. Maybe if he had seen the Godfather a few more times, he would have realized that when you refuse a favor, you are going to get an offer you can't refuse.

Reprinted with permission from How to Vanish.

April 7, 2011

Bill Rounds, J.D. is a California attorney. He holds a degree in Accounting from the University of Utah and a law degree from California Western School of Law. He practices civil litigation, domestic and foreign business entity formation and transactions, criminal defense and privacy law. He is a strong advocate of personal and financial freedom and civil liberties.

Copyright © 2011 How to Vanish

The Best of Bill Rounds


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http://www.lewrockwell.com/rounds/rounds34.1.html

[Russell Kanning]

it is really funny now having the US government complain that he printed $5/10/20 on something that is now worth $30-40 of the paper money they print.

[MikeforLiberty]

I converted a couple of waitresses to domestic terrorist recently, when offered three pieces of debt paper stamped $1 or a simple 10 cent piece of 90% silver, those horrible terrorists turn their noses up at those fine Federal Reserve papers and chose a dime instead. How the hell can we run a country if these simple people are to stupid to understand the power of our printing presses?

[Russell Kanning]

cool