My 11/12/05 open carry incident , report

[Dave Ridley]

Ok here is my quick report on the open carry incident in Concord today.   Others who have filed reports feel free to copy them to this thread.

After the Socialist Security protest we all drove over to a local pizzaria whose name I forget....and I got out of the car open carrying to go in.  There was a fire truck at the scene because someone had called in that a person was choking.  However the situation had apparently come under control before authorities got there.  Any way as I was going in and officer was coming out (Concord P.D.)  He spotted the Glock on my hip and asked me if I had a license.  I said yes but I don't need one to open carry.   He asked me to follow him to another part of the parking lot and requested that I keep my fingers away from the gun.   Since i've been through this before I stayed friendly and didn't get upset but I was a little nervous, wanted to make sure I did everything right.   He asked me again if I had a license and I said are you talking about a driver's license or the license to carry?  I wasn't going to show him the license to carry concealed since he had never seen me carrying concealed.  Eventually he got around to asking for the driver's license and since the law does force me to show that, or at least to identify myself I agreed quickly to show him this.   He called my information in to HQ and asked I think if there were any outstanding warrants.

At some point in there he mentioned that it is uncommon for people to open carry and I don't remember exactly what I said but somewhere in there I told him that I do it precisely *because* so many people don't.  I said it's good for people from Mass. to see we are open carrying around here and that this is a bad place to come commit a crime.   He asked , earlier, if the gun was loaded and I said yes although I don't necessarily think that's a question you have to answer.

Now here's the wild part: about the time HQ got back to him about my law abiding status I was checking his badge and noticed his name was somethign like Dzelic or Dzandic...something South Slavic.   I speak Serbian so I said "Da ti govoris srpski?"   He doesn't have much of an accent but it turned out he is from or ethnically tied to Bosnia (same language basically).  So from there on it was all pleasant conversation, and when all the freedom lovers came pouring out of the restaurant to see what was going on all they could see was these two guys with guns merrily speaking Serbian/Bosnian/Croatian, what ever you want to call it, to each other.  Since he's from Bosnia I suspect he has a good idea how important it is for average citizens to have guns; there would be no free Sarajevo without that.

At some point in there, maybe 2 minutes into it, Mike Fisher (ever the steadfast dude) showed up next to me and said something like "what's going on?"
And I said something in there about educating the officer, but not in a condescending way; I was grinning at the guy.

He said no warrants, you're free to go, and I said...welcome to America!

[AlanM]

This could only happen to Dada!  Chatting in Bosnian while they are checking for outstanding warrants. 

[Fluff and Stuff]

Eventually he got around to asking for the driver's license and since the law does force me to show that, or at least to identify myself I agreed quickly to show him this.? ?

Why didn't you just tell him your name?

So, it is legal for officers to stop anyone on private property for their papers and hold them for 5 min while they do a background check?

[Kat Kanning]

Time for everyone to dogpile on Dada and criticize his interaction with the cop.

[KBCraig]

The whole point of open carry is education. That includes educating the police, which can take a little more time, because you're not just educating them about open carry. You're also educating them about lawfully asserting your rights.

Good story, Dada. I guess you'll be relating it on your nightly call to FTL. 

Kevin

[Dave Ridley]

So am I not required by law to show him my ID?  If not , that's good to know and I'd be happy to assert that next time perhaps. I do think I am at least required to give him my name honestly.   I'm learning as I go and do not mind suggestions for improvement.

[AlanM]

So am I not required by law to show him my ID?? If not , that's good to know and I'd be happy to assert that next time perhaps. I do think I am at least required to give him my name honestly.? ?I'm learning as I go and do not mind suggestions for improvement.

Didn't the US Supreme court rule that you had to show your ID if the police asked? Could be wrong here. 

[JonM]

They said you had to give your name.? We aren't quite at the point where we're required to carry ID on foot, for the moment at least.

[AlanM]

They said you had to give your name.? We aren't quite at the point where we're required to carry ID on foot, for the moment at least.

Thanks for the correction, JonM 

[KBCraig]

The court rulings on this have done some shifting, but here's how I understand the basics...

If you're in public and approached by the police for an investigation, you may be required to identify yourself, but I don't know of anything in NH requiring you to prove ID. (There's at least one southeastern state --Georgia or one of the Carolinas-- that requires you to have photo ID when appearing in public. It's a leftover Jim Crow law.)

Before the Hiibel ruling, there was no obligation to identify yourself to police in this situation. But, if you did identify yourself, you were obligated to be truthful. I believe the same standard would apply when asked for ID: you could be charged for lying to an investigating officer if you said you didn't have ID with you, when in fact you did.

When in doubt, just ask: "I'd rather not. Does the law require me to show you my ID? What are the consequences if I don't?" Hardcase officers will lie and threaten, while good officers will probably be taken aback, but will answer honestly. The latter are educable and reachable.

Kevin

[citizen_142002]

You are required by law to give your name to an LEO on request. I do not personally agree with this, but depending on my mood, I may or may not give him my name. If I felt that I was going to get busted anyway, I wouldn't.

[Kat Kanning]

I was held on the beach without ID. The guy told me he'd arrest me if he couldn't verify the name/address I told him.

[Michael Fisher]

I was held on the beach without ID. The guy told me he'd arrest me if he couldn't verify the name/address I told him.

???

When did THIS happen!? 

[Kat Kanning]

About 3 years ago, Half Moon Bay, CA. This guy was going to haul me in cause I was walking my dog on an empy beach.  I had to go to court, where the Judge just rolled his eyes and told me I was free to go.

[Michael Fisher]

Way to protect and serve... the state!   ???