Freedom Friends Tuath

[Michael Fisher]

I swear the I will do all that I have agreed to do...

Nice and simple! ?Hmmm... it just seems like you're not even allowed to lie if we say that.
Here are our ideas from the meeting and the discussions on this thread so far:


Freedom Friends Tuath - Membership Contract

I pledge to abide by the Zero Aggression Principle under all circumstances.

Zero Aggression Principle: ?No human being has the right - under any circumstances - to initiate force against another human being, nor to threaten or delegate its initiation.

In order to seek an honorable reputation and politely resolve conflicts, I agree to restrict arbitration of all disputes between myself and other tuath members to this tuath's arbitration process.

I will watch for opportunities to voluntarily help and protect other tuath members in times of need.

I understand that breaching the terms of this contract may result in restitution judgements against me.

Signed by: ?(new member)
Print Name ________________ ?Signature ________________ ?Dated _________
Phone _____________________
Address ____________________________________________
City ___________ ?State ____ ?Zip _________

Witnessed by: ?(existing Member)
Print Name ________________ ?Signature ________________ ?Dated _________

__ Check here to request strict confidentiality of your membership status unless you sign a written request to the contrary.

[Kat Kanning]

That's good.  No reason not to join.  I'd already do all of those things.

[Michael Fisher]

[AlanM]

I swear the I will do all that I have agreed to do...

Nice and simple! ?Hmmm... it just seems like you're not even allowed to lie if we say that.
Here are our ideas from the meeting and the discussions on this thread so far:


Freedom Friends Tuath - Membership Contract

I pledge to abide by the Zero Aggression Principle under all circumstances.

Zero Aggression Principle: ?No human being has the right - under any circumstances - to initiate force against another human being, nor to threaten or delegate its initiation.

In order to seek an honorable reputation and politely resolve conflicts, I agree to restrict arbitration of all disputes between myself and other tuath members to this tuath's arbitration process.

I will watch for opportunities to voluntarily help and protect other tuath members in times of need.

I understand that breaching the terms of this contract may result in restitution judgements against me.

Signed by: ?(new member)
Print Name ________________ ?Signature ________________ ?Dated _________
Phone _____________________
Address ____________________________________________
City ___________ ?State ____ ?Zip _________

Witnessed by: ?(existing Member)
Print Name ________________ ?Signature ________________ ?Dated _________

__ Check here to request strict confidentiality of your membership status unless you sign a written request to the contrary.

I like it. ?

[ken]

  Sounds good to me.

[FSPinNY]

It seems like the arbitration process should be clearly spelled out as a part of this agreement so there are no surprises and misunderstandings.

and,

>I will watch for opportunities to voluntarily help and protect other tuath members in times of need.

This could very easily be subjectively interpreted as 'you haven't helped anyone in a year and we are bringing you to arbitration', or 'what have you done for others - we haven't seen you as active'...

Brian

[Lex]

It seems like the arbitration process should be clearly spelled out as a part of this agreement so there are no surprises and misunderstandings.

and,

>I will watch for opportunities to voluntarily help and protect other tuath members in times of need.

This could very easily be subjectively interpreted as 'you haven't helped anyone in a year and we are bringing you to arbitration', or 'what have you done for others - we haven't seen you as active'...

Brian

I agree with Brian. At least the basics or general idea of the arbitration process should be explained, maybe a sentance or two describing how it works. And I don't think we need to add anything to the contract that's not really binding, asking people to be helpful is more of a suggestion and such things can be left to verbal means. For example, as part of having an existing member sign this contract the member can explain to the new individual all the benefits of the tuath and what are the social expectations of the members (helping people, being polite, etc).

Leave the social aspects to the society and the contractual aspects to the contract :-)

[Michael Fisher]

This could very easily be subjectively interpreted as 'you haven't helped anyone in a year and we are bringing you to arbitration', or 'what have you done for others - we haven't seen you as active'...

Nah, it's enough to say you "watched" for opportunities.    The word "voluntarily" makes the sentence not contractually binding.

Should we change the wording of it to clarify that?  ???

[AlanM]

It seems like the arbitration process should be clearly spelled out as a part of this agreement so there are no surprises and misunderstandings.

and,

>I will watch for opportunities to voluntarily help and protect other tuath members in times of need.

This could very easily be subjectively interpreted as 'you haven't helped anyone in a year and we are bringing you to arbitration', or 'what have you done for others - we haven't seen you as active'...

Brian

I agree with Brian. At least the basics or general idea of the arbitration process should be explained, maybe a sentance or two describing how it works. And I don't think we need to add anything to the contract that's not really binding, asking people to be helpful is more of a suggestion and such things can be left to verbal means. For example, as part of having an existing member sign this contract the member can explain to the new individual all the benefits of the tuath and what are the social expectations of the members (helping people, being polite, etc).

Leave the social aspects to the society and the contractual aspects to the contract :-)

Good points. But, rather than carefully describing the Arbitration process, merely a reference to the By-laws, "as descibed in ...." or "as spelled out in..."

[FSPinNY]

Perhaps the by-laws can be printed on the reverse side and referenced as such.  All expectations should be very clear so as to avoid misunderstandings.

Brian

[Michael Fisher]

I do not believe we can define the arbitration process in the member contract without making it much longer. ?We could refer them to the bylaws.

How about this:

In order to seek an honorable reputation and politely resolve conflicts, I agree to restrict arbitration of all disputes between myself and other tuath members to this tuath's arbitration process, as defined by the bylaws of this tuath.


OR


In order to seek an honorable reputation and politely resolve conflicts, I agree to restrict arbitration of all disputes between myself and other tuath members to this tuath's arbitration process, as defined by the bylaws of this tuath.. ?I will add this clause to all contracts I enter into with other tuath members.


Eli believes that could make us more competitive with the judicial system, as all actual contracts between members would state this clause.

My biggest problem with this addition is that members would be LEGALLY banning themselves from possible arbitration in courts outside of the tuath. ?In other words, this clause may actually hold up in US court if we require people to add it to all of their contracts with other tuath members.

I do not want to add something to the member contract that can be used against a tuath member in a case in just about any court of arbitration outside the tuath. ?

[AlanM]

I do not believe we can define the arbitration process in the member contract without making it much longer. ?We could refer them to the bylaws.

How about this:

In order to seek an honorable reputation and politely resolve conflicts, I agree to restrict arbitration of all disputes between myself and other tuath members to this tuath's arbitration process, as defined by the bylaws of this tuath.


OR


In order to seek an honorable reputation and politely resolve conflicts, I agree to restrict arbitration of all disputes between myself and other tuath members to this tuath's arbitration process, as defined by the bylaws of this tuath.. ?I will add this clause to all contracts I enter into with other tuath members.


Eli believes that could make us more competitive with the judicial system, as all actual contracts between members would state this clause.

My biggest problem with this addition is that members would be LEGALLY banning themselves from possible arbitration in courts outside of the tuath. ?In other words, this clause may actually hold up in US court if we require people to add it to all of their contracts with other tuath members.

I do not want to add something to the member contract that can be used against a tuath member in a case in just about any court of arbitration outside the tuath. ?

But Mike, the whole idea of the Tuath is to REQUIRE arbitration within the Tuath system, rather than outside the system in a court of law.

[Michael Fisher]

But Mike, the whole idea of the Tuath is to REQUIRE arbitration within the Tuath system, rather than outside the system in a court of law.

Good point.

My only fear is losing potential members over this.

[AlanM]

But Mike, the whole idea of the Tuath is to REQUIRE arbitration within the Tuath system, rather than outside the system in a court of law.

Good point.

My only fear is losing potential members over this.

Any potential members lost by this, would, IMHO, be the wrong people to join the Tuath.

[Eli]

Let me clarify my position a little Allen.  Just as in currency markets, where real currency is driven out by force based fiat currency, the tuath has a weak position because any free riders who decide to use force (through the courts,) can.  There is nothing but goodwill and fear of exile to keep them in place. 

This might make folks with a weaker moral compass than yours run to the courts in order to derive some short term advantage.  I don't think it is necessary to add such a clause to the tuath membership contract, as mike suggests.  Just that, when dealing with new members, tuathe members make sure the mediation/arbitration clause is built into any contracts.  That way if a new member is not as 'high minded' as we might hope and goes running to the court and surpasses mediation and arbitration they are in violation of their contract. 

This kind of social structure makes the tuath more competetive with the government system by using the law to its advantage.  I think that in such rare occasions where we can use law to our advantage, if only to keep law of our back, it is tactically appropriate to do so.