Freedom Friends Tuath

[Lex]

Very good points.  I only said "absolutely confidential" because I'm concerned about contact information being handled loosely.

Perhaps the contact information is all we need to keep confidential.

Or we could have the checkbox be a request for confidentiality.  Then they'd need to sign a release each time they want their membership proven.

Also, the arbitrator selection process will uncover members who choose to be arbitrators.

Would you also reveal the reputation and/or the standing of this individuals in the tuath?

[Michael Fisher]

Would you also reveal the reputation and/or the standing of this individuals in the tuath?

Scanned arbitration judgements will probably be available on the website.  I have absolutely NO desire to track anyone's reputation beyond that.  We must respect the privacy of our members.

[Lex]

Would you also reveal the reputation and/or the standing of this individuals in the tuath?

Scanned arbitration judgements will probably be available on the website.  I have absolutely NO desire to track anyone's reputation beyond that.  We must respect the privacy of our members.

Who will track reputation? If you have a society that's based on repuation someone has to track it somehow and make sure it's valid. If I am a bank about to loan someone money I will first want to authenticate this individual to make sure they do infact belong to a tuath, then I will want to authorize the individual to see if they are reputable enough to borrow the money.

[Michael Fisher]

Who will track reputation? If you have a society that's based on repuation someone has to track it somehow and make sure it's valid. If I am a bank about to loan someone money I will first want to authenticate this individual to make sure they do infact belong to a tuath, then I will want to authorize the individual to see if they are reputable enough to borrow the money.

We've been down this road, and it's a very, VERY ugly road.? ?

How would you like your name, picture, contact information, bank records, personal information, past relationships, good and bad financial transactions, and every other aspect of your life tracked?? THAT is what reputation tracking would require.? Ken and I planned to build this system, but quickly realized the very concept is ultra-Orwellian.

I printed out our plans for the system at the beginning of the tuath meeting but tore it up before everyone arrived.? bleh.? ?? You can thank Caspian for reminding me of the value of privacy.? I should have known better.

I'd rather trust people based on what I know about them rather than what everyone else knows about them.

For example, I know Bob the carpenter has been in the tuath for a while, so he's likely to consistently abide by ZAP.? I know Bob has done work for other tuath members that I'm friends with.? These members even personally referred me to him for carpentry services.? I'm going to do business with Bob.

[Lex]

Who will track reputation? If you have a society that's based on repuation someone has to track it somehow and make sure it's valid. If I am a bank about to loan someone money I will first want to authenticate this individual to make sure they do infact belong to a tuath, then I will want to authorize the individual to see if they are reputable enough to borrow the money.

We've been down this road, and it's a very, VERY ugly road.   

How would you like your name, picture, contact information, bank records, personal information, past relationships, good and bad financial transactions, and every other aspect of your life tracked?  THAT is what reputation tracking would require.  Ken and I planned to build this system, but quickly realized the very concept is ultra-Orwellian.

I printed out our plans for the system at the beginning of the tuath meeting but tore it up before everyone arrived.  bleh.     You can thank Caspian for reminding me of the value of privacy.  I should have known better.

I'd rather trust people based on what I know about them rather than what everyone else knows about them.

For example, I know Bob the carpenter has been in the tuath for a while, so he's likely to consistently abide by ZAP.  I know Bob has done work for other tuath members that I'm friends with.  These members even personally referred me to him for carpentry services.  I'm going to do business with Bob.

Ebay provides a pretty simple reputation system. Do you feel like even ebay's system reveals too much?

[FSPinNY]

>I'd rather trust people based on what I know about them rather than what everyone else knows about them.

With or without the tuath, relationships will be based upon our experiences with each other.  What a joy (it will be) to live among and work with so many friends who understand the depth of freedom and zero aggression.   

Brian

[cathleeninnh]

The tuath can't guarantee anyone's reputation. I am cautious by nature and I advise everyone to be prudent with business dealings. If you really feel the need to be backed up by the "long arm of the law" then maybe a ZAP based tuath isn't for you.

Cathleen

[AlanM]

The tuath can't guarantee anyone's reputation. I am cautious by nature and I advise everyone to be prudent with business dealings. If you really feel the need to be backed up by the "long arm of the law" then maybe a ZAP based tuath isn't for you.

Cathleen

Excellent points Cathleen.
The Tuath is about creating relationships that will blossom into trust. No system of tracking folks is fool-proof anyway, so I feel it is better to trust my own judgement. That is what freedom is about.
I will choose to first consider a person who is a Tuath member, either for buying or selling a product or service, based upon their stated commitment to ZAP, over someone who is not a tuath member.

[AlanM]

I can see many different projects or businesses coming out of this Tuath, each one on a strictly voluntary basis, but created as a result of the trust developed by the Tuath relationships. I'm really excited about this. 

[AlanM]

I had achat with another fellow who is very interested in the Tuath idea, and wants me to keep him posted. 

[Michael Fisher]

I can see many different projects or businesses coming out of this Tuath, each one on a strictly voluntary basis, but created as a result of the trust developed by the Tuath relationships. I'm really excited about this.?

Me too. 

[Michael Fisher]

I had achat with another fellow who is very interested in the Tuath idea, and wants me to keep him posted.?

So... I guess nobody else is willing to create the Membership Contract?   

[Eli]

Sounds like petty tyranny to have the decisions of two binding upon hundreds.

It is funny that you mention that, at the meeting we actually joked that we went so far outside to box that we achieved freedom through tyranny! Seriously though, my thoughts on this is that in our government today we have a constitution that is theoretically supposed to limit the government, however the government just ignores the constitution for the more part. To think that a piece of paper with ink on it can limit any thing is fundamentally flawed, so the idea of putting restrictions on the board of the tuath is in itself pointless.

Trying to place restrictions on a government with borders has its advantages in that government growth can be slowed, however over time the government will always push to achieve things that they are specifically denied by its founding document. This problem does can not happen within the structure of a tuath because they are voluntary and have no borders.

If we board members go crazy one day and proclaim that everyone must wear green on Tuesdays and if they refuse then they will be fined 5 silver per count, then everyone will just leave the tuath and start new and better (or worse) tuaths. This is the force that will drive the board to keep the tuath as free and attractive as possible.

I for one hope that our tuath gets so large and diverse that many groups splinter off of it to create new tuaths to better fit them and their ideal way of life. You can base a tuath off of any idea not just zap, heck you could even try to make a communist utopian tuath, which would of course fail but the point is that you could try it. My thoughts are that tuaths will evolve naturally and the best tuath design will become dominate and will almost certainly mirror freedom and liberty.

Ken.  Thanks for posting this.  It made clear to me that I was thinking about this trapped in a totalitarian mindset.  It doesn't matter, in a voluntary association, how strict the rules are.  As long as someone has the freedom to vote with their feet they stay free, even if the rules of the tuath are incredibly rigid.  Your post really shook loose the assumptions.  With monopoly government a rational person seeks to limit governments control of the individual.  With competing governance structures, one needs to merely chose the limitations one wants to live with.

[Kat Kanning]

Freedom Friend's Membership Contract

I swear the I will do all that I have agreed to do, and I will not encroach on other persons or their property.  If I am able, I will help other members of the tuath.  Should I have a dispute with another tuath member, I agree to arbitration within the tuath.

Sign here ___________________________________________





Why make it more complicated than that?

[AlanM]

How about:

I, _____________ , agree to abide by the terms of the Freedom Friends Tuath Bylaws.
Date _____________________
Signature of new member ______________________
Signature of sponsoring member ___________________________




Contact data on separate sheet.