Religious ramblings

[Russell Kanning]

Did Noah really get two polar bears in the ark?
That is a really big ark. With animals from different continents that the people of that time did not know existed.
Is Moses really that dumb that he got lost for 40 years? The Sinai is just not that big.
I have heard some people say that Jesus was married? Was he? Where does it say that?
The Bible says you should stone gay people (according to Joey et al)-- then shouldn't you go do that?
I still am confused about much of this stuff.
I think if you are a good person and follow one rule then that is all you need in life.

Good question
Maybe the continents came later ..... or how do we know what continents they knew about.
He was following a cloud .... he wasn't lost.
What makes you think that he was married? Read the book to find out what really happened.
We don't live under those rules. You should read the book.
You can read the book and ask questions.
Are you a good person? Take the test: http://www.livingwaters.com/good

[Pat K]

I just wan't to know what they did with all that shit on the Ark those poor bastards must have been shoveling like mad men.

[Russell Kanning]

Adam had Cain and Abel and Seth and 'others'.
Cain and Seth had kids.... with whom?

I guess their sisters.

[mvpel]

FreedomBabe, let me reiterate the first words of this thread:

I'm well aware that there are many atheists in the free state project.  This post isn't directed at you guys.

Why do you feel the need to harass and insult participants in this thread?  Why not just put it on your ignore list?

[Michael Fisher]

www.religioustolerance.org

[Russell Kanning]

I suppose it must've been god's plan to have creepy priests molest innocent children by the hundreds just to "test" their faith or the faith of their parents.

What does that have to do with Caleb's musings?
This is God's take on that issue:
Matthew 18:6 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=47&chapter=18&version=49
Matthew 23:1-, 13-, 28 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=47&chapter=18&version=49

[Russell Kanning]

I just wan't to know what they did with all that shit on the Ark those poor bastards must have been shoveling like mad men.

They must not have had laws against shoveling it overboard.

[KBCraig]

Well the bible is literal is what I am hearing.
One day = 24 hours.

Back in my day, "day" had more than one meaning.

[Pat K]

I just wan't to know what they did with all that shit on the Ark those poor bastards must have been shoveling like mad men.

They must not have had laws against shoveling it overboard.

No doubt but damn they must have hardly had time for anything else.

[Russell Kanning]

Well the bible is literal is what I am hearing.
One day = 24 hours.

Back in my day, "day" had more than one meaning.

I read morning and evening and day ....... as 24 hours

[Lloyd Danforth]

I just wan't to know what they did with all that shit on the Ark those poor bastards must have been shoveling like mad men.

They must not have had laws against shoveling it overboard.

No doubt but damn they must have hardly had time for anything else.

Scenerio#1)  If they had stayed in one place and kept shoveling, they might have someplace to land earlier.

Scenerio#2) They might have been raising the water as a result of all that shoveling.

[Caleb]

I think the conservative (though not fundamentalist) answer to the question about the Bible, is that the Bible is to be taken as true ... but there is a catch.  Let me explain.  I could say, "The Bible says, `everything a man has he will give in behalf of his soul.'" -- and that's true, but that isn't the TRUTH that the Bible is trying to get across.  In fact, it is a quote from an enemy of God, quoted (though not endorsed) by the Bible.

The Bible itself was written by men, men who had faulty understandings of science in many cases; men with prejudiced views in other areas.  For my part, I don't take every story in the Bible as receiving the "endorsement" of God.  Some stories are just told, but that doesn't imply that God is endorsing the story.  In fact, in some cases, it is made quite plain that God disapproved of the actions in question.

The Bible also doesn't reveal everything.  Some questions likely weren't known to the authors, and God didn't see fit to give special revelation.

Furthermore, I believe that God limited the assistance that he gave to the writers of the Bible.  The Bible is not a book "dictated" by God.  "Inspired" is the right word.  It doesn't imply that there are no grammatical errors, no spelling errors, no mistaken ideas or biases upon the part of the authors.  God didn't intend to dictate a book.  He lets the errors and fallacies of the writers shine through, for by doing so he shows what he can accomplish with even the weaker things of his creation.  As Paul put it

God chose what is foolish in the world to shame the wise; God chose what is weak in the world to shame the strong; God chose what is low and despised in the world, even things that are not, to bring to nothing things that are, so that no human being might boast in the presence of God.

This isn't God trying to "show off".  Christians are no better than anyone else, but they do understand something that many people do not:  To live without God is the greatest of anguish.  All creation yearns for oneness with God, an offering which God gives freely to all mankind.  But boasting, and trusting in ourselves, is a mere delusion.  It only widens the seperation between mankind and God, because it brings us further away from the acknowledgment that we need God.

The way that I understand process theology, (and of course, there are many strands of thought, and I'm only just beginning the journey), is that it doesn't attempt to interfere, necessarily, with Christian doctrine, only to explain it more fully.  Process seems more concerned with the nature of God than with science, but it integrates many different fields of study to show how God works within all things. 

As such, "miracles" would be questioned by Process, but I don't think they would be automatically excluded. 

The Scriptures acknowledge the need to grow in a walk with God, and I think there is a pretty blatant acknowledgement that the Scriptures can only assist so far.  The Bible is not, nor was it intended to be, the sole repository of truth.  Paul explains it this way

For we know in part and we prophesy in part, but when the perfect comes, the partial will pass away.  When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child.  When I became a man, I gave up childish ways.  For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face.  Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known.

And John too acknowledges his limitations of knowledge ...

Beloved, we are God's children, but it has not yet been revealed what we are to be; but what we know is that when he appears, we will be like him, because we shall see him as he is.

Gods dealings with mankind have of necessity been limited by the development of man himself.  When mankind was a babe, he spoke as a babe, thought as a babe, reasoned as a babe.  Most importantly, God must then have dealth with him as a babe.  He was such as needed milk, not solid food.

But as we learn more about the universe around us.  As we continue to develop as a species, we grow, and Gods dealings with us change as well.  The old answers no longer are as satisfying; we now need solid food.

That's why I don't think that a Christian interpretation of Scripture must view it as being a book dictated by the hands of God.  Inspired of God, true.  But not dictated by God.  God deals with us at different levels, always seeking to mold and help us, but never seeking to coerce us.

Caleb

[Caleb]

I'd like to comment a little on freedombabe's question about the priests.  In my long statement, I completely forgot about it.

In Christianity, there has been a debate raging for centuries as to the nature of free will in God's dealings with mankind.  One camp calls themselves "Arminians".  They believe strongly that man has complete free will, and is able to do whatever he wants. 

The "Calvinists" believe that God has predestined everything in the world, and thus an individual cannot help but do that which he has been fated to do.

It seems like a minor theological debate, but it calls into question the very nature of God.  After all, if you have free will, then there are some things that God himself has no control over, right?  I mean, he can't force you to do something, then doesn't that mean that his power is not unlimited?

I would think that is PRECISELY what it means.  If the Calvinists are true, then God is not only arbitrary (because he selects some men for salvation and some for damnation based on a selection process that the individuals involved have no control over) but he's also wicked, because he himself CREATES suffering!

Since Calvinism must therefore be false and Arminianism true ... it must need follow that God is NOT of unlimited power and control.  Process theology continues along this line of thought, as it muses on how God interacts in a world in which he does not have full control over the events that occur.

So the best answer I can give you is that people who do evil deeds do not do so because it is "God's will" that they do so.  They do it in spite of his will, exercising their free will in seperation from God.

Caleb

[polyanarch]

Thou art god.

Here is a pretty good explaination of who Cain and Able married in story form:

http://www.turoks.net/Cabana/OtherPeople.htm

Namaste

[Dreepa]

Interesting story! Thanks.

I read a book of short stories once ( can't remember the name). And it talked about Noah have 4 sons but they lost a ship a sea so he rewrote his story to only have 5.  It talked about unicorns, griffins etc.  People still have them in memory because they existed but why aren't there any on earth?  Because Noah ate them all on his trip.  Pretty funny story.  ( Told from a worm's point of view).

I guess this is the part that I always wonder about.
Either the bible is literal or it is not.
If it is then 7 days is 7 days. 
But when you say well a day is not exactly a day... so I say well then I can decide what is literal and what is not right?
I took the test... I broke 4 out of 10 maybe 5 depending on how you read into one.

We don't live under those rules. You should read the book.

I assume by this you mean that Jesus law now overtakes Moses' law. Right?
So isn't it know love they neighbor as you love yourself?

I truly am not trying to be an ass but my wife won't answer any more of my reliqious questions. ( she says I am an ass  )