Asking permission for Freedom

[AlanM]

Freedom is something we should have. I think that all will agree to that basic idea. But where does freedom come from? Are we granted freedom by the Government? or is it that they take it from us, and parcel it back to us as if they are benevolent parents? or do we have freedom as a basic right of humanity, and have handed it over to the Gov ofour own volition? If so, under what terms can we demand its return?

[president]

or do we have freedom as a basic right of humanity

If that is the case, you need to explain why humans have right that other life does not.

[AlanM]

or do we have freedom as a basic right of humanity

If that is the case, you need to explain why humans have right that other life does not.

Please explain how other forms of life don't have freedom.

[ladyattis]

What must be pointed out is that Freedom is not ensured by codified rights[moral oughtbes], Freedom is ensured by the capacity of your mind and will to enact plans for it. This doesn't just mean some thuggish act of violence, it can also mean forming 'common law' between you and others like yourself for a 'common defense.' In which, you can live peaceably with little concern for a central State body. If you have to ask permission for Freedom then what is being asserted is that one does not have the freedom to even ask for Freedom, if that makes any sense; that one must act in a submissive manner to a State body, as a slave acts submissive to a lord or lady. Freedoms come from the capacity to assert them, so in this regard, we assert force for our freedoms everyday, it's just the State body wants to give the illusion that it must be asked for. o_O

If that makes any sense.

Also, on the issue of non-humans having freedom, they may be free to act according to their instincts, but they are not free of them. In this regard, they are free defacto, just not dejure. o_O

If that makes any sense too...

-- Bridget

[AlanM]

What must be pointed out is that Freedom is not ensured by codified rights[moral oughtbes], Freedom is ensured by the capacity of your mind and will to enact plans for it. This doesn't just mean some thuggish act of violence, it can also mean forming 'common law' between you and others like yourself for a 'common defense.' In which, you can live peaceably with little concern for a central State body. If you have to ask permission for Freedom then what is being asserted is that one does not have the freedom to even ask for Freedom, if that makes any sense; that one must act in a submissive manner to a State body, as a slave acts submissive to a lord or lady. Freedoms come from the capacity to assert them, so in this regard, we assert force for our freedoms everyday, it's just the State body wants to give the illusion that it must be asked for. o_O

If that makes any sense.

Also, on the issue of non-humans having freedom, they may be free to act according to their instincts, but they are not free of them. In this regard, they are free defacto, just not dejure. o_O

If that makes any sense too...

-- Bridget

I would define freedom to be the ability to make decisions concerning my existence free from the force of other individuals.
To me, it is all a matter of the non-use of force. I may willingly enter any agreement.

[ladyattis]

Correct, you can assert a concept through your mind. In this regard, the concept is freedom. Most non-humans don't even have a working capacity to react in an organized manner to their perceptions. o_O

-- Bridget

[Russell Kanning]

What line do I need to stand in for some more freedom?

[AlanM]

What line do I need to stand in for some more freedom?

In the "Please, sir, may I have some more?" line. 

[president]

Please explain how other forms of life don't have freedom.

Are you joking?

I would define freedom to be the ability to make decisions concerning my existence free from the force of other individuals.
To me, it is all a matter of the non-use of force.

Other forms of life are considered "property" of humans. If they are owned, they are slaves.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=slave

slave
n.

   1. One bound in servitude as the property of a person or household.

[president]

What line do I need to stand in for some more freedom?

You don't get more.
You have it, or you don't.

[AlanM]

 ?So, we have a Government of a majority of voters who can tell the rest what to do. Sounds like a bunch of thugs to me.

[AlanM]

Please explain how other forms of life don't have freedom.

Are you joking?

I would define freedom to be the ability to make decisions concerning my existence free from the force of other individuals.
To me, it is all a matter of the non-use of force.

Other forms of life are considered "property" of humans. If they are owned, they are slaves.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=slave

slave
n.

? ?1. One bound in servitude as the property of a person or household.

A bear, or moose in the wild is a slave?  ???

[president]

You forgot to read the "If they are owned" part.

[president]

Sounds like a bunch of thugs to me.

Humans sound like a bunch of thugs to me.

[AlanM]

You forgot to read the "If they are owned" part.

I was pointing out that other animals are free UNTIL THEY ARE SUBJUGATED.