Main thread for Ed and Elaine Brown vs the evil IRS, Part 10

[mvpel]

JosephSHaas: Thanks for the info. Very informative. I'm glad to see a site where the members have their stuff together. Over at the Loose Change forum, it's like pulling teeth to get anyone to even recognize that there are no laws that state that we have to pay income taxes.

If it were so obvious as you seem to imply here, hundreds of thousands of accountants and H&R Block flunkies would be out of a job.

[Russell Kanning]

I've been having a running battle with several trolls who keep spreading disinfo for the last couple of days. 

Guys like that can use up all your energy.

[Russell Kanning]

If it were so obvious as you seem to imply here, hundreds of thousands of accountants and H&R Block flunkies would be out of a job.

And that would be a bad thing how?

[Kevin Bean]

Hey faux Bill Grennon. I just noticed you had "Patron of Ytsvu" in your profile. Karma to you.

Tracy

[mvpel]

If it were so obvious as you seem to imply here, hundreds of thousands of accountants and H&R Block flunkies would be out of a job.

And that would be a bad thing how?

I didn't say it would be.  My point is that the fact that they aren't out of a job means that it's not quite so obvious as BatManchester seems to imply.

[Lex]

If it were so obvious as you seem to imply here, hundreds of thousands of accountants and H&R Block flunkies would be out of a job.

And that would be a bad thing how?

I didn't say it would be.  My point is that the fact that they aren't out of a job means that it's not quite so obvious as BatManchester seems to imply.

I don't see the correlation between something being obvious and people doing something about it. Most people know that smoking is obviously bad for them and they still do it. Whether it is obvious or not is irrelevant. It's merely a matter of enough people wanting to create a reality in which we don't have to pay taxes. If enough people decide that they don't want to pay taxes this desire will manifest into reality. Of course, most people are ignorant sheeple and there is no hope, but I'm a pessimist so please don't listen to me. 

[mvpel]

But Lex, there is an objective reality, here and now, wherein Title 26 Section 1 imposes a tax on the taxable income of individuals, yet BatManchester seems to brand that as "disinfo."

[Quantrill]

Id love to play the video if anyone is interested in seeing a 1994 drug bust.  But to this day, all i can remember is the chief who is suppose to uphold the law of the land, our constitutional right, and he didnt know anything about those rights.  It changed my views on everything.  I was a child at this time, will never forget the amount of force they used on one person.  I hope they make a right choice and not use this brutal force on Ed Brown.

Will you be at the Liberty Forum?  This video would be sure to get people riled up...

[batmanchester]

Hey guys. Take it easy on me will ya? I'm still learning all of the ins and outs of the tax laws, and from what I've been able to come up with on the Cornell Law School's site, is that the Supreme Court decided that the 16th Amendment didn't give Congress any new powers to impose taxes on individual income, only corporate income and capital gains. I'm studying, but try to remember that most of my concentration for the last 2 years has been on the 9/11 truth movement, and keeping people on a bunch of different forums up to date on the latest news, and also posting from the government's own sites everyday, everything they say or do. I'll catch up on all this tax stuff. I learn quick, but from what I can glean so far, I can't find anything that says that Mr. or Mrs. Average American is supposed to pay a federal income tax, save for the government's own claims.

[JosephSHaas]

Re: William Morse, Assistant U.S. Attorney.

--Would somebody please tell me what being "labeled uncooperative"* means and the effect it has.

--I just did an http://www.google.com search for: "William Morse" "U.S. Attorney", and finding on page 1, #6b there that WALL STREET JOURNAL report of March 28, 2006 by Nathan Koppel as posted by Peter Lattman, that "New Hampshire U.S. Attorney William Morse, one of the three prosecutors accused of misconduct, denies wrongdoing...in which federal prosecutors have warned companies that if they don't cut off paying their employees' legal bills, they could be labeled uncooperative*. A justice Department spokesman told the WSJ that 'the government does not force corporations to do anything.' If a company declines to advance fees, he says, 'that is a business decision made after weighing all of the costs and benefits of cooperation.'"  So WHAT exactly are these "costs" of cooperation, other than money?

--The "misconduct" or "Improper behavior" in THAT case is nothing when compared to the "Malfeasance" or "Wrongdoing, esp if contrary to OFFICIAL OBLIGATIONS" of Morse in the Brown case, (emphasis ADDed) as indicated by me in Reply #____ above, for him having violated Rule #16 of the game that when the judge finds out about this from: __________ (who?) and on: ________ (when?) he ought to call: tilt, as in a game of pinballs, the game is OVER! Mistrial declared by judge.  Tom Colantuono fires Morse! Brown files Petition to attach Morse's house at #____ _________ (Street), in the town/city of: ______________ for $__ million dollars! Do not pass Go, do not collect $200, Go Directly to Jail! Not of Ed nor Elaine, but Morse!  Yeah, just imagine that!

Yours truly, - Joe

P.S. Did anybody here ever find out where Morse lives? I think now's the time to take a picture of his house and get a copy of his property card, to exhibit in some Petition to attach in maybe a civil suit to offset this criminal case, or step #1 of 2 in the process? There has got to be a pre-sentence report conducted by: ___________________ and already started?  so to find out WHO is doing this and get them photocopies of this "exculpatory evidence" and my affidavit. I think this might be the way to go since Ed can give the court like a "Special Appearance" to challenge jurisdiction, but if so-and-so is charged with investigating for a Pre-Sentence Report, let's see if he/she or them finds this forum, and does their homework before their final report back to the judge, the defendants entitled to a copy I think 35 days BEFORE the Tuesday, April 24th sentening of Elaine in the a.m., and Ed in the afternoon, so by Tue., March 20th ? Then the investigator having just over six (6) weeks now to either seek this out, or do we give him this ahead of time? or test him to see if he really conducts what they call a "diligent search".

http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2006/03/28/feds-want-indicted-executives-to-pay-their-own-way/

[Dave Ridley]

The ed brown audio blog call in thing i wrote to some of you about is down , the one with the old code ending 1002.

apparently they have a new one set up but I don't know the codes.  cant wait to use it, the old one was very useful and I was just starting to interview people with it

[Dave Ridley]

Quick report from the minidemonstrations on 2/1 and 2/2:

I demonstrated mostly alone for about 3.5 hours, in two separate blocks of time at louden and main in concord on thursday 2/1.
after testifying against a bill, i had some time to kill so I demo'd there from about 11:30 to 1:00. 

however as soon as I took a break to go testify against another bill, a complete stranger showed up and took my place.   He held his own sign , and my rattlesnake flag, for i'm guessing about 90 minutes also.

Then I came back out and demo' from about 330 to 5.

I had a backwards facing v mask for the second part of the demo only, the rattle snake flag of course and a new sign that says

"Dear Feds,
Plz Don't
Hurt Ed Brown
NHfrree.com"

during the whole 3 hr demo process I counted 20 positive responses ( not including waves) and 2 negative.   
one guy yelled from his car "are you v?!?"  he was excited.   another young pedestrian gal stopped with her boyfriend and said, of Ed Brown "I hope he has a lot of bullets!"

I got better responses with the mask on.
I did get joined by joe haas for part of the second half of the demo; he held the sign and I held the flag.
bernie drove by and returned some stuff I"d left at ed's.
one other free stater that I know of drove by and honked.

Today, 2/2, we had a more successful demo in front of the IRS office at 1000 elm.  lasted from 11:45 to 2:00

4 of us turned out , and this time the union leader and a tv crew both stopped to take our pics.
brian had his honk if you hate taxes sign so it was impossible to count responses...probably about one positive response every 30 seconds.  I think we had about 5 negative responses of some kind, one homeless guy said they should hang ed, and another drive by yelled at us asking who was going to pay his bills for him if we didn't fund the government.   quite a few people stopped to shoot the breeze including a free stater who was in town from his home in new york on a job interview, and gardner goldsmith's sister.  there was also a guy who'd been to ed's a couple times and described himself as a radical constitutionalist. 

People there seemed more aware who ed was than the folks at concord.

[Romak]

Some of you guys are really out there protesting this. Its just ashame that you are alone most of the time. We are pretty big in the gun movement. We have a site called keepandbeararms.com. We have had over 10 million visitors in the past year alone, but when the chit hits the fan its amazing how many people turn a blind eye if it doesnt directly impact their lives. Point is when the proverbial chit hits the fan at Eds(if it does) if you're lucky there might be ten guys there to defend him. If this was strictly a gun issue I could get 100 guys at his property in under an hour to defend him. Most people have no clue when it comes to paying taxes. They see it as their civic duty even if they hate it tremendously. Most of these people have money invested in homes, etc. They dont want to risk losing it over not paying a tax even if it is unconstitutional. They think they will be alone in dealing with this and lose everything they have when everyone else just goes on living. Point is this issue isnt on the top of peoples minds. Most in our group focus solely on rolling back all of the unconstitutional gun laws on the books and maintaining our right to protect our family and countrymen. I dont envy your plight at all and you are all in for a long battle. As for myself my family paid over 50K in taxes last year and that was just income tax, but we dont see any proof that the federal income tax is illegal. What we could do for our family with that money available would be tremendous and we dont like how our Govt is spending our hard earned income either, but we just dont see anything that says we dont have to pay it. If we did we wouldnt pay it. I think thats where most Americans stand on the issue.

[Lex]

Some of you guys are really out there protesting this. Its just ashame that you are alone most of the time. We are pretty big in the gun movement. We have a site called keepandbeararms.com. We have had over 10 million visitors in the past year alone, but when the chit hits the fan its amazing how many people turn a blind eye if it doesnt directly impact their lives. Point is when the proverbial chit hits the fan at Eds(if it does) if you're lucky there might be ten guys there to defend him. If this was strictly a gun issue I could get 100 guys at his property in under an hour to defend him. Most people have no clue when it comes to paying taxes. They see it as their civic duty even if they hate it tremendously. Most of these people have money invested in homes, etc. They dont want to risk losing it over not paying a tax even if it is unconstitutional. They think they will be alone in dealing with this and lose everything they have when everyone else just goes on living. Point is this issue isnt on the top of peoples minds. Most in our group focus solely on rolling back all of the unconstitutional gun laws on the books and maintaining our right to protect our family and countrymen. I dont envy your plight at all and you are all in for a long battle. As for myself my family paid over 50K in taxes last year and that was just income tax, but we dont see any proof that the federal income tax is illegal. What we could do for our family with that money available would be tremendous and we dont like how our Govt is spending our hard earned income either, but we just dont see anything that says we dont have to pay it. If we did we wouldnt pay it. I think thats where most Americans stand on the issue.

They are probably legal, but are they moral as well?

If they are not moral than we must all do something to end them (i'm not saying do what Ed is doing, but even convincing other people that taxes are immoral is a great start). What are you doing Romak?

[Russell Kanning]

People can know the right thing to do ... it is the doing it that is the key ... and the hard part.