Main thread for Ed and Elaine Brown vs the evil IRS, Part 15

[Dave Ridley]

me suggest listening to supperman, he has good ideas.

i like the candlelight vigil

[anthonybpugh]

Start messing with road signs and hope you get some of the feds lost. 

[CNHT]

You know considering this has been going on for years, I would just sit back and let it blow over...like it always does..

[JosephSHaas]

responses on the union leader's website appear roughly evenly split between people who support the browns and people who support the feds.

Thanks David.  I went over to http://www.unionleader.com/article.aspx?headline=Brown+felt+federal+raid+was+%27imminent%27&articleID=ce37995 by Pat Grossmith to give them my two cents, there being no preview page to copy what you write; merely a "Thank you for your comments" that MAY be posted in #__ amount of time.

So here's to find out IF mine will be posted, and whether it might be edited:

"I know that State Police 'shall' cooperate with the Feds by RSA 106-B:11 for 'apprehending criminals' and so YES- in that case it was a raid, and not what Marshal Steven Monier says was to find out WHERE Ed was to make sure he didn't retaliate.  Or in other words we have a LIAR for a U.S. Marshal!  Nowhere in the statute is there any provision for 'mutual aid' from 'Maine and Massachusetts State Police.'  That's in RSA 106-D:1, and Article VII.B. to be exact for when there is an RSA 106-C:1,I defined 'Emergency' with the and word only, not the and/or status, of needing both an RSA 644:1 riot withIN a 'natural disaster.'  Yesterday being a nice sunny day with the governor gloating over his signed RSA 106-D:3 papers KNOWING that the Feds are non-filers to N.H. RSA Ch. 123:1 per Art. I, Sec. 8, Cl. 17 of the U.S. Constitution.  Ed merely asserting his Art. 5, N.H. Const. religious rights to Public Law 97-280 action in Proverbs 29:19 to correct public servants who KNOW they are wrongly asserting jurisdiction that they do not have!  See also the fact that there is no T.O./Treasury Order from the E.O./Executive Order in the CFR/Code of Federal Regulations, and as such does NOT apply to the public-at-large.  IRS paperwork without the OMB# is bootleg and can be treated as such, so said Martin J. "Red" Beckman to us on Ch. 9 WMUR back in the 1980s when he came to here with his books running for President."

Yours truly, - - Joe Haas

[JosephSHaas]

Oh duh, I just had a lightbulb moment.  I was at Shaw's when that detective "detained" me.  He thought I was going to buy groceries for the Browns and take them up there.  (I'm slow to catch on.)

Or what about this?: SHAWS makes a donation to the cause of freedom: #____ bags of groceries delivered by company truck to the Brown "compound". And/or Free bottled water from Poland Springs, Maine.

Also: Michael's Arts & Crafts, with the following announcement of that there will be a craft workshop next Saturday for HOW TO MAKE: "Molotov Cocktails" http://mlcastle.net/raisethefist/molotov.html - - BTW do the Feds use gasoline or diesel tanks?  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov_cocktail a/k/a The "TANK BUSTER"  http://trulyawful.blogspot.com/2007/03/toy-molotov-cocktail-you-know-for-kids.html

Maybe Santa Claus with his bag, can be at SHAWS too taking donations of both glass and plastic bottles for the cause.  Yeah!: Let's all recycle! 

Also to get some of the local restaurants to donate some grease for that 50-25-25 mixture with the gasoline-tar+grease.  I wonder what Exxon-Mobil or Shell would say to the fact that I let Ed siphon out some of their excellent gas.  Maybe I might get a NASCAR $25.00 racing card from Shell for some free advertising when it "hits the fan"? motor of the tank.

[TylerM]

Oh duh, I just had a lightbulb moment.  I was at Shaw's when that detective "detained" me.  He thought I was going to buy groceries for the Browns and take them up there.  (I'm slow to catch on.)

Or what about this?: SHAWS makes a donation to the cause of freedom: #____ bags of groceries delivered by company truck to the Brown "compound". And/or Free bottled water from Poland Springs, Maine.

Also: Michael's Arts & Crafts, with the following announcement of that there will be a craft workshop next Saturday for HOW TO MAKE: "Molotov Cocktails" http://mlcastle.net/raisethefist/molotov.html - - BTW do the Feds use gasoline or diesel tanks?  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov_cocktail a/k/a The "TANK BUSTER"  http://trulyawful.blogspot.com/2007/03/toy-molotov-cocktail-you-know-for-kids.html

Maybe Santa Claus with his bag, can be at SHAWS too taking donations of both glass and plastic bottles for the cause.  Yeah!: Let's all recycle! 

Also to get some of the local restaurants to donate some grease for that 50-25-25 mixture with the gasoline-tar+grease.  I wonder what Exxon-Mobil or Shell would say to the fact that I let Ed siphon out some of their excellent gas.  Maybe I might get a NASCAR $25.00 racing card from Shell for some free advertising when it "hits the fan"? motor of the tank.

I like the idea.... I recommend aviation fuel (100 Low Lead) or Jet fuel for the cocktails though. You can also work out a nice incendiary fuel-air bomb with those fuels as well...

FYTI: Military grade tanks run on JP-8 jet fuel.

[JosephSHaas]

Oh duh, I just had a lightbulb moment.  I was at Shaw's when that detective "detained" me.  He thought I was going to buy groceries for the Browns and take them up there.  (I'm slow to catch on.)

Or what about this?: SHAWS makes a donation to the cause of freedom: #____ bags of groceries delivered by company truck to the Brown "compound". And/or Free bottled water from Poland Springs, Maine.

Also: Michael's Arts & Crafts, with the following announcement of that there will be a craft workshop next Saturday for HOW TO MAKE: "Molotov Cocktails" http://mlcastle.net/raisethefist/molotov.html - - BTW do the Feds use gasoline or diesel tanks?  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov_cocktail a/k/a The "TANK BUSTER"  http://trulyawful.blogspot.com/2007/03/toy-molotov-cocktail-you-know-for-kids.html

Maybe Santa Claus with his bag, can be at SHAWS too taking donations of both glass and plastic bottles for the cause.  Yeah!: Let's all recycle! 

Also to get some of the local restaurants to donate some grease for that 50-25-25 mixture with the gasoline-tar+grease.  I wonder what Exxon-Mobil or Shell would say to the fact that I let Ed siphon out some of their excellent gas.  Maybe I might get a NASCAR $25.00 racing card from Shell for some free advertising when it "hits the fan"? motor of the tank.

I like the idea.... I recommend aviation fuel (100 Low Lead) or Jet fuel for the cocktails though. You can also work out a nice incendiary fuel-air bomb with those fuels as well...

FYTI: Military grade tanks run on JP-8 jet fuel.

Thanks TylerM,

As soon as I get a reply to my e-mail letter to the http://www.flymanchester.com/ Manchester, N.H. Airport by way of their http://www.flymanchester.com/contact/ page I'll let you know.  Maybe they might donate to the cause too. 

Here's what I did write:  "Where can I buy some 100 octane airline or #__ octane jet fuel?  And how much does it cost per gallon?  I'd like to make some molotov cocktails for if/when the Federal goons go beserk over at Ed's place.  See http://newhampshireunderground.com/forum/index.php?topic=9113.240  I'm serious!  Just like the 2nd Amendment to use guns against our own government when it starts to run amuk and we have to rresort to Article 10 action!  or am I limited to Sunoco 93?  Thank you, -- Joe".

[E-ville]

Hmm, the only way I can see anyone getting violent is if there actually on the browns property and the browns agree to it, Like they start fighting you can to.

Really violence only degrades you to the level of the feds.. don't stoop to there level , but be p repaired for them to start it first because there track record show that they trend towards violence.

Really if you want to win this war, it will be won with information, Wire the browns place with video and dump the stream to a off site location, Information and informing will win this one. Not violence.. violence is what the feds want you fire first and they will kick your butt, thats there specialty.

Remember: ***Possible hints***
Wireless can be shot miles with directional antennas, FM or Am can go for miles.. if the browns are resisting arrest they may not even care if there charged with a over power FM or AM or even TV transmitter charge form FCC..

If we could get a wat to 24/7 monitor and record all activities.. we would win the war and the feds would not raid the place.. because it would be way to damaging if any real footage got out.

Imagine if there were footage from inside waco..

The biggest hurtle is getting a way to of site capture this information with out a possabillity for the feds jamming it , the best way for this is a wired solution.. cat 5 can transmit video thousands of feet with the right blaun converters. Cat five can also transmit power to a device to record the information.. Say a mini bunker in the woods a couple thousand feet away form the house..  recording the needed info.. and a person retrieves a hard disk with the info after a key event?

Food for thought.
E-ville

[Lex]

cat 5 can transmit video thousands of feet with the right blaun converters

What are blaun converters? Specifically, how do they extend the range of cat5? The maximum distance for plain old cat5 is a little over 300 ft so I think it would be pretty amazing to increase that to thousands of feet as you suggest.

[Recumbent ReCycler]

I would recommend against making molotov coctails.  I suppose it wouldn't hurt to have the materials at the Browns' property, but I wouldn't assemble them unless you are attacked.
http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/html/XII/158/158-37.htm

158:37 Use of Molotov Cocktail; Penalty. – Whoever makes, sells, uses or has in his possession or under his control a bottle or other breakable container containing a flammable liquid into which has been fixed or placed a wick or similar device, and which bottle or container when ignited and thrown will cause a fire or explosion, shall be subject to the following penalty:
    I. If the offense occurs prior to November 1, 1973, he shall be fined not more than $1,000 or imprisoned for not more than 2 1/2 years, or both.
    II. If the offense occurs on or after November 1, 1973, he shall, if a natural person, be guilty of a Class B felony, and any other person shall be guilty of a felony.
    The provisions of this section shall not apply to flares, lanterns, fireworks or other such devices used for signal or illumination purposes, or items used for any other lawful purpose.

Source. 1973, 419:1, eff. Aug. 29, 1973.

If you have lanterns, which are often made of glass, contain fuel and a wick, then they are OK to have according to statute.
JP8 is not only jet fuel, but is also the fuel used in many military trucks.  It is also known as diesel fuel.

I think information and communications will be key to winning freedom.

Edited to add the following:
I have given this more thought, and decided that molotov coctails would definitely be more of a liability than an asset.  Tactically, it would be foolish to use them on allied property, partly because fire is unpredictable and could cause damage allied property.  They also have a very limited range.  All it would take is for one person to shoot a lit coctail before it is thrown, and you're in a world of burning hurt.    I would strongly recommend not trying to make any molotov coctails.  There is about a 99% chance that it would end up harming you more than it might help you.  A box of .22lr ammo could be used to better effect, and is not illegal to posses.  I hope that this can be resolved without any bloodshed.  I think that it would be preferable for us to win this fight without violence, as our goal is not to kill or injure anyone, but to regain the freedom that has been unjustly taken by people in government.  Violence should only be used as a last resort, to defend against an unjust violent attack, and when it is used, it should only be used against the attackers.  We do not want any innocent bystanders to be injured by our acts, or by anyone's acts for that matter.

[penguins4me]

Ron had a good idea:

Get a bunch of folks together with backpacks filled with fresh produce, and everyone will try to "infiltrate" the Brown's "compound" at the same time.  Everyone who gets in provides the browns with fresh food (enabling their stores to last longer) and everyone who gets caught will 1) tie up cops, distracting them from the others; and 2) will necessitate the cops deciding how many of these cases they actually want to take to court and prosecute, with any jury having to decide whether someone walking through the woods with produce is a "criminal."

Also, even if they decide to prosecute a number of these cases, how many different juries will they have to empanel, how will they control the news, and so on.

Don't I just love the iron fist of our gentle rulers?

"They" were threatening that one dog-walker fella with 40 years in prison for aiding the Browns.

What was the total prison sentence handed to the Browns by the Judge again?

How does the proposed punishment fit the "crime" again?

[E-ville]

really.. does this really mater, a molitof compared to a rifle will loose.

Being non violent unless attacked and documenting it in some fashion that will be made public will the be the most persuasive.. if the browns stay to there word, blood will fly.. If the government causes it and there is proof.. that will just further the argument that the government is way out of control. If the government attacks some one it makes the arguement that taxation is slavery and government it out of control.

A non violent crime, guilty or not,  should never be delt with via violence form either side...

I was always told to never through the first punch, but once its been done, to fight to the end.

Best process today it to follow these same rules , but to document everything. I carry a video camera with me everywhere... If I leave my house I have a video camera with me. on my hip ready to go.

E-ville

[error]

Lessons of Waco, Ruby Ridge applied at Plainfield

By KATHRYN MARCHOCKI
New Hampshire Union Leader Staff

Despite the massive show of force authorities displayed last week when they seized the West Lebanon property of convicted tax evaders Edward and Elaine Brown, the avoidance of confrontation with the couple at their Plainfield home suggests law enforcement agencies have learned from mistakes made during earlier federal standoffs at Waco and Ruby Ridge, an expert who tracks militia and radical right-wing movements said.

U.S. marshals in New Hampshire appear to be pursuing tactics similar to those used in Montana in 1996, when federal agents successfully negotiated the peaceful surrender of the Montana Freeman after an 81-day standoff, said Mark Potok, director of the intelligence project at the Southern Poverty Law Center.

"This was the lesson of Ruby Ridge and Waco. Those two standoffs not only left a great many dead people in their wake, but also helped create the militia movement," Potok said.

The 51-day standoff in 1993 between federal agents and the Branch Davidians at their compound near Waco, Texas, ended in a fire that left 74 people dead. Four federal agents were killed in an earlier shootout with the Davidians.

In 1992, a confrontation between federal agents and white separatist Randy Weaver in northern Idaho's Ruby Ridge resulted in the deaths of one federal agent and two members of Weaver's family.

"It's very easy to see one of these situations escalate into mass killings, and that, in turn, can set off very large and dangerous political movements," said Potok, who reported on the Waco siege for USA Today and now tracks radical right and militia groups for the law center based in Montgomery, Ala.

Potok said Stephen Monier, the U.S. marshal in New Hampshire, has carefully avoided creating a standoff with the Browns while attempting to convince the couple to surrender.

"That seems like a good tactic," he said.

Potok said the dozens of armed federal and state officials who rolled into Lebanon Thursday and set up surveillance at the end of the long driveway leading to the Browns' rural home in nearby Plainfield was not an overreaction, given Edward Brown's repeated threats to use force against authorities attempting to serve the couple with arrest warrants issued at their sentencing in April.

"If you were law enforcement and you were going to approach the Browns' house, you are completely within your right to be ready for anything," Potok said. "The man has repeatedly threatened violence and he has some friends who apparently agree with him."

Monier said he had to take into account the history of the Browns' case when he executed a federal court order to enter the West Lebanon property where Elaine Brown ran her dental practice.

Ed Brown has threatened violence against law enforcement, owns weapons, and said he would die defending himself and his property, Monier said. Brown also has had a number of supporters -- some armed -- at his home.

"We needed to have some real-time information about what was going on there and who might be leaving there when we were also in Lebanon," Monier said of the surveillance teams set up at the driveway of the Browns' house Thursday morning. "We had no intention of storming the house."

Monier refused to discuss tactical details but said the overwhelming presence of state and federal officers -- which included SWAT teams, and military and explosives vehicles -- was necessary to ensure the safety of the officers and the public.

A federal jury convicted the Browns in January of plotting to hide their income and avoid federal income taxes on Elaine Brown's income of $1.9 million between 1996 and 2003. The jury found they used $215,890 in postal money orders in amounts just below the tax-reporting threshhold to pay for their residence and Elaine Brown's Lebanon dental office.

A judge sentenced the couple in abstentia to 63 months in federal prison and ordered them to forfeit the $215,890 to the federal government.

The court issued a preliminary order of forfeiture on both properties in February. This week the court issued a writ of entry on the Lebanon property only, a high-ranking official with the U.S. Attorney's office said. The official would not comment on whether an order is forthcoming to enter the Plainfield property.

The Lebanon property was secured and posted Thursday.

"It was rendered safe and there were no hazardous materials," Monier said, adding that reports of the dental office at Half Hollow Courtyard holding a network of underground tunnels and a bunker are unfounded.

"That's another of those Internet legends," Monier said, referring to the Browns' heavy reliance on the Web to get their message out.

Federal authorities now would need to obtain a final order of forfeiture from the court to take ownership of the Lebanon property and use it to satisfy the forfeiture order, the federal source said. He said he did not know if the property is sufficient to meet the $215,890 judgment.

Monier still has to serve the Browns with arrest warrants that would immediately send them to prison to begin serving their 63-month sentences.

"We've said all along that we're going to be deliberate, patient and calm in our approach to this," Monier said of his efforts to persuade the Browns to surrender peacefully.

"We have no desire to see any harm come to the Browns," he added.

Potok said this is a reasonable approach and one that has proven successful in other standoffs that lasted months and, in some cases, years. He pointed to an ongoing standoff between a Texas man and sheriff's deputies that has gone on five years.

"If this is what this means, that the Browns will be locked up inside their house for the next three years or five years . . . that's punishment all by itself," Potok said.

"The problem is that that is expensive" for law enforcement charged with monitoring these situations and executing court orders as they did Thursday, he said.

[Kat Kanning]

If there are no cameras up there, the feds can say whatever they want about what happens.   You know, stupids things like the Davidians burned themselves up.

[dalebert]

I think we should go ahead and have the candlelight vigil. Why wait until the Brown's have been murdered? That would be a powerful non-violent statement pointing out the real source of violence. It's a way of saying "We know where this is going. A tragic act of violence is about to take place and we are already in mourning." If we turn out to be wrong, then GREAT. It worked and we should present it just that way. We HOPE we're wrong. We should make our statement of intent very clear for potential media coverage and film it ourselves for good measure; YouTube it, etc. We should also make sure that the Feds have been informed of exactly what's going on so they don't misinterpret it and try to claim they thought we were holding molotav cocktails rather than candles or some B.S. like that. In fact, I think the best time would be during PorcFest.

Actually, we should probably do it in a more high traffic area rather than near the Brown's like Concord or Manchester. I would leave that to the locals to decide since they know the area better. If these people are going to murder the Browns over money then they need to know that people are watching, and every time there's another Waco or Ruby Ridge or Browns, more people will be watching each time and soon people will no longer be able to remain in denial that everything is A OK, business as usual.

EDIT: OK, it looks like Supperman15 was already suggesting this. Kudos and +1 to him. I need to re-read recent posts first. Anyway, what do people think about having a marching vigil sometime during PorcFest when lots of FSPers will be in N.H.? The bigger the turnout, the bigger the impact so I think we should start planning and promoting as soon as possible.