Main thread for Ed and Elaine Brown vs the evil IRS, Part 17

[Oldmanofthemountain]

Being new to this forum, I am not sure if you all have seen this yet, but it is relevant to the discussion. It is almost two hours long, but gets right the issue at hand.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1656880303867390173

[Oldmanofthemountain]

One quote from the film that sticks out...

"People say we need the income tax to fund government. Ridiculous. If that's true, how was the government funded from 1776 to 1913?"

[Romak]

Caleb for someone who is so animated and afraid of their Government dont you think you should own at least a couple guns to protect yourself? I mean seriously brother if they are in fact Nazis then it would be pretty easy for them to silence you without fearing any resistence on your part. If they are that evil arent you concerned for your safety.

[Russell Kanning]

Show up with one of these:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Unimog-416-Mercedes-4x4-Troop-Transport-6cyl-Diesel_W0QQitemZ320124898392QQihZ011QQcategoryZ6315QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

and make Ed happy.

[Caleb]

Caleb for someone who is so animated and afraid of their Government dont you think you should own at least a couple guns to protect yourself? I mean seriously brother if they are in fact Nazis then it would be pretty easy for them to silence you without fearing any resistence on your part. If they are that evil arent you concerned for your safety.

yes, I am terribly concerned for my safety. If they persecute me, though, I will just do as Jesus said and flee to another city. Being from the Heartland, I've got this down to earth way of looking at things, and I figure that I probably can't outgun a nuclear armed superpower with a couple of rifles. But that's just me.

[LordBaltimore]

I don't remember voting to create the IRS.

I'm pretty sure you weren't alive and of voting age 145 years ago which is when the IRS was created.

When the current income tax system was implemented in 1913, it was very very popular with the common laborer because they were tired of being the only ones to fund the government through an oppressive tariff system that rich people could easily avoid.  The income tax was welcomed by the voters because it was seen as an equalizer.  Just look at the political cartoons from the time such as this one:

http://www.boondocksnet.com/gallery/taxes091100.html

And this one showing the people paddling the 16th Amendment into passage:

http://www.boondocksnet.com/gallery/taxes130300.html

I remember the Congress trying to rein them in.

Congress reined them in in 1998 and then chastised them in 2001 for not being aggressive enough in going after tax cheats.  Congress controls the IRS (that's the function of the Oversight Committee) and Congress funds the IRS with a whopping big budget to collect taxes that Congress writes into law.

Your beef isn't with the IRS; it's with Congress.

But let's not forget everyone is under the thumb of the IRS.

Nah.  They're just the front guy that takes the hatred from the public.

Everyone in this country is one step away from a felony conviction.

Nonsense.  There's that exaggeration trend again.

An administative agency that writes it's own contradictory rules, that isn't libel if they mislead or lie to you. If you don't bend over the barrel for them they will destroy your life.

They are doing exactly what Congress has told them to do.  Congress has delegated that admin rule writing ability to them, and has the ability to undo any admin rule that they don't like.  It happens all the time.

Vote our way out of this mess  

Boy have you fallen for Congress' game of deflecting the blame on the tax cops instead of on the real crooks, the people who write the rules and fund the tax cops.

[LordBaltimore]

It's worth noting that a government informant asked him to saw off the shotgun, and carefully pointed out exactly where it should be sawn off (below the 18" limit). The feds hoped they could hold this over Weaver's head and turn him into an informant. He didn't play their game, so they killed his wife and son.

Truly ugly stuff.

Ed Brown is no Randy Weaver and never will be.  To the public eye, Ed's a convicted tax cheat with a big mansion on a hill, not a dirt poor guy who was set up by the Feds in a crooked deal because they wanted him to infiltrate the Aryan Nations.

[LordBaltimore]

One quote from the film that sticks out...

"People say we need the income tax to fund government. Ridiculous. If that's true, how was the government funded from 1776 to 1913?"

A god awful system of tariffs.  The income tax was welcomed in 1913 with open arms because it was seen as relief from the oppression of tariffs.

There had been earlier versions of the income tax in history (in 1862, for example), usually brought in temporarily to fund wars.

To read a good review of the disasterous economic effects of the tariff system in the early 19th century:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nullification_Crisis

[TylerM]

Show up with one of these:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Unimog-416-Mercedes-4x4-Troop-Transport-6cyl-Diesel_W0QQitemZ320124898392QQihZ011QQcategoryZ6315QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

and make Ed happy.

Ridin' fly in the back of my Mercedes-Benz. 

That's my kind of Benz (besides the E500)! Anyone want to chip in?

[MaineShark]

I don't remember voting to create the IRS.

I'm pretty sure you weren't alive and of voting age 145 years ago which is when the IRS was created.

So?  How would that be relevent?  Unless I elect to enter into a contract with someone, I have no obligation to them.  Your date proves the point: no one alive today gave consent, so how can anyone alive today be under any obligation?

Joe

[TylerM]

I don't remember voting to create the IRS.

I'm pretty sure you weren't alive and of voting age 145 years ago which is when the IRS was created.

So?  How would that be relevent?  Unless I elect to enter into a contract with someone, I have no obligation to them.  Your date proves the point: no one alive today gave consent, so how can anyone alive today be under any obligation?

Joe

The INTERNAL REVENUE SERVICE was actually formed in 1953 by the Sectary of the Treasury G.M. Humphrey, from the Bureau of Internal Revenue which was formed in 1862 to pay for the war on the American Public.

[LordBaltimore]

So?  How would that be relevent?  Unless I elect to enter into a contract with someone, I have no obligation to them.  Your date proves the point: no one alive today gave consent, so how can anyone alive today be under any obligation?

You should probably live in a country that doesn't have a republican form of government or a Constitution that isn't renewed every year by popular vote, then...

[LordBaltimore]

The INTERNAL REVENUE SERVICE was actually formed in 1953 by the Sectary of the Treasury G.M. Humphrey, from the Bureau of Internal Revenue which was formed in 1862 to pay for the war on the American Public.

It's all the same entity.  Congress created a position called a Commissioner. Everyone else in the IRS are just employees of the Commissioner of Internal Revenue. There were 4,000 IRS employees in 1862 and 100,000 IRS employees today. From it's very inception, it's been a whopping big bureaucracy that is perpetuated by Congress who keeps funding their budget.

[Russell Kanning]

http://mensnewsdaily.com/2007/06/16/free-ed-and-elaine-brown/

"Every now and again, I hear people being interviewed who believe that federal income taxes are constitutionally invalid and, as a result, they refuse to pay them. My first thought is usually "have fun in prison." In one instance at least, I think this is a cause worth fighting for."

[Russell Kanning]

I have guys like richardr on ignore ... but he still gets in the way of my reading enjoyment