Main thread for Ed and Elaine Brown vs the evil IRS, Part 21

[LordBaltimore]

I heard a recent report that there were only 90 guns per 100 Americans.

The most recent stats show 285 million americans over the age of 10, and 290 million guns in the US, with sales of guns and ammunition both on the rise.  At my local range (and I'm in one of the most gun unfriendly states in the nation) the classes are full, and roughly half of the people taking the classes are women which is relatively new.  While the press may roject doom and gloom, the numbers don't agree.

And they've already done years of work to make it socially unacceptable to be a gun owner. That's how they will disarm us: through attrition. They'll have a new generation of people who know nothing about guns or freedom, and the guns we have now will pass into history. At a certain point, there will be few enough guns out there in responsible hands that effective defense of anything larger than a city block is no longer viable. This is what they did in New York City, Chicago, Washington, D.C., and many other places. (Not to mention that only criminals -- and "criminals" who will protect their rights regardless of whether it's legal to do so -- will have guns.)

Who are "they"?  The one world conspiracy?  The ruling elite who can't agree on shit but magically get along when it comes to this?  The secret unnamed group that controls social norms?

Social mores change with each generation.  That's only natural.  Look at sexual openness and gender issues now compared to 50 years ago, or race rights, or marriage conventions. Times change, and people react to the changes.  They could just as easliy swing the other way in the next 50 years.  Is there a "they" behind these changes too?

[dalebert]

The idea that guns, alone, keep us free is not very sound.

Wait, who said that? Just because people are defending that right doesn't mean they believe it's the only thing that matters.

Why put the people in an internment camp? That costs them to maintain you, they are the parasites that want to live off your labor. As a parasite, government shouldn't kill the host, just live off it.

It's a very good question and yet oppressive governments do it. I think at some point before a complete collapse comes a period of desperation whereby government will resort to more and more extreme measures to maintain control. North Korea is impoverished and they're keeping thousands in camps, usually to make an example of those who disobeyed in some manner, or in many cases their innocent family members. It's a powerful fear tactic.

[J’raxis 270145]

The idea that guns, alone, keep us free is not very sound.

Saddam Hussein allowed his subjects to own machine guns.

To think that Leviathan will drive up to your door, demand your gun and then put you on the cattle car.  They already have most people in a cage, that they voluntarily got into. If you have the drivers license, if you pay the income tax, if you go to the doctor, if you use a credit card etc. etc.

Why put the people in an internment camp? That costs them to maintain you, they are the parasites that want to live off your labor. As a parasite, government shouldn't kill the host, just live off it.

Another tid-bit to chew on. The Minutemen/Continental Army didn't defeat the English, the French did. Are we going to ask another superpower to back us up in the revolution, China perhaps?

The thing that keeps the powers that be in check is the need to appear legitimate. Peaceful, nonviolent resistance is the tool that is most effective.

You're right that mere gun ownership and quantity is meaningless—but a willingness to use them against the government is what's needed, and what in many places we do actually have. Saddam actually encouraged his people to own weapons, but no one dared take up arms against the Iraqi government with them.

Your rationale for why a government wouldn't actually put people in camps certainly sounds reasonable, but considering that it's been done before, not much of a counterpoint. Let's also not forget that the government currently warehouses 2.2 million prisoners on the taxpayers' dime, too. And, if the government were to intern people, it would either only be small numbers of "potentially dangerous" people (like the Japanese during WWII), which is certainly affordable, or large numbers of people who wouldn't exactly be fed or cared for anyway (like the Jews during WWII), which, again, is certainly affordable.

If we ever did get to the point of an armed revolution against the government, I certainly wouldn't have a problem with asking a foreign country to aid us. Like you said, we were aided by the French in 1776, and it's not like they then tried to take over or exert undue influence over the new nation. Your example of China is actually a pretty decent idea, too, because throughout history China, among all the major world powers, has never been a country to want a far-flung empire or domination of the entire world, unlike England or France. I can easily imagine the Chinese only wanting to knock down the U.S. government so they could then return home, and be left alone to run their own country.

Peaceful, nonviolent resistance works only under two circumstances. Either there's enough publicity of attacks on nonviolent protests to make the government look bad—this is why it was so effective for people like Gandhi and Martin Luther King—or, there's an understanding that your peaceful, nonviolent resistance is backed up by actual violence if it becomes necessary.

[Romak]

Error I couldnt disagree with you more. Gun ownership is on the rise especially since 9/11. And Richardr is right there are more women gun owners than ever before. I dont go to the range anymore since I have the luxury of having one in my backyard, but if the recent competition I entered is any indication here locally the numbers are growing significantly. Two years ago I registered at the comp, but this year I had to enter it early as it was full two months in advance. And these are serious shooters not your run of the mill hunter group. Just in my family alone which is rather large Ive had numerous calls over the past couple of years from non gun owners who are now gun owners asking for advice for home protection. More Liberals as you call it are buying guns at record rates because of their fear of this administration. Hunters may be dwindling because of less access to land, but gun owners are growing. This is fantastic news. Not to mention how much more organized we are than ever before. Not as much fighting within the ranks as before. There are more than one gun behind every blade of grass, and as opposed to World War 2 when this saying came about the guns are a heck of lot more powerful and accurate. One only needs to look at the example of Switzerland, and America as to how civilian gun ownership completely negates the chance of someone invading a country by force. It just aint going to happen so long as we have this right.

From the time the so-called "Assault Weapons Ban" was first proposed until it went into effect, something like 6 million semi-automatic rifles of military type (mostly SKS's and AK-47 clones) were imported into this country and sold. With them came billions upon billions of rounds of 7.62x39mm ammunition. That was more rifles of those types than had been sold in the previous twenty years! This was in defiance of the intent of the ban. It was in full expectation that the next law was to be one of confiscation. The Law of Unintended Consequences was in full swing then, and finally even the Clintonistas recognized that these millions of rifles and billions of rounds of ammunition were not being purchased to turn in to them, but to turn ON them if they became just a little more grasping. So, I say with all seriousness, yet happily: Be careful what you wish for. You may get it. The Law of Unintended Consequences guarantees it.

[J’raxis 270145]

I heard a recent report that there were only 90 guns per 100 Americans.

The most recent stats show 285 million americans over the age of 10, and 290 million guns in the US, with sales of guns and ammunition both on the rise.  At my local range (and I'm in one of the most gun unfriendly states in the nation) the classes are full, and roughly half of the people taking the classes are women which is relatively new.  While the press may roject doom and gloom, the numbers don't agree.

And they've already done years of work to make it socially unacceptable to be a gun owner. That's how they will disarm us: through attrition. They'll have a new generation of people who know nothing about guns or freedom, and the guns we have now will pass into history. At a certain point, there will be few enough guns out there in responsible hands that effective defense of anything larger than a city block is no longer viable. This is what they did in New York City, Chicago, Washington, D.C., and many other places. (Not to mention that only criminals -- and "criminals" who will protect their rights regardless of whether it's legal to do so -- will have guns.)

Who are "they"?  The one world conspiracy?  The ruling elite who can't agree on shit but magically get along when it comes to this?  The secret unnamed group that controls social norms?

Social mores change with each generation.  That's only natural.  Look at sexual openness and gender issues now compared to 50 years ago, or race rights, or marriage conventions. Times change, and people react to the changes.  They could just as easliy swing the other way in the next 50 years.  Is there a "they" behind these changes too?

Yeah, take a look around at all the "sexual openness" in society nowadays: the moral panic surrounding pedophilia, "sex crimes," and "sex offenders," the complete inability of most people to use any rationality when debating such topics, the hysterical overreactions to "sexual harassment" in the workplace, and so on. As social control loosens up in one place, it just seems to migrate elsewhere.

This is, to a large extent, directed by a "they" behind the scenes—popular morality and social values are things that were invented by the ruling classes in order to control people. It's especially true with sexual controls: Conservative values not only keep the size of the hoi polloi in check, but more importantly, such self-denial of natural impulses causes all sorts of psychological frustration and zealotry in people, which can be channeled to useful ends by the rulers, such as fighting and dying in wars.

Read about the neoconservatives—these guys have admitted in their own writings that they're mostly atheistic but they believe in strong religion for society, in order to maintain order. Seneca summed it up best when he said: Religion is regarded by the common people to be true, the wise to be false, and the rulers to be useful.

When and if "they" tend to lose control through one means, the control just moves elsewhere. Yesterday it was adultery or homosexuality; today it's pedophilia.

Although I will say that I agree with you in one place: I don't believe there's a "one world conspiracy" running this. It's a lot of individual groups—some more powerful and expansive than others, which give some people unfortunate misconceptions about world-spanning conspiracies—all using the same tricks and techniques to exert control over those under them.

[LordBaltimore]

This is, to a large extent, directed by a "they" behind the scenes—popular morality and social values are things that were invented by the ruling classes in order to control people.

They aren't succeeding, unless you think that internet porn, high divorce rates (the Christian right southern states have the highest of all) and a generation that engages in temporary "hook ups" is part of the elite's master plan.

Just because a ruling class says, "Jump" doesn't mean that American give a damn about jumping. 

Blaming some faceless conspiracy of elites is fun, but doesn't really mean much if what every day people are doing doesn't track what the elites mandate.

And, I don't know about you, but as far as I'm concerned, anything goes between consenting adults, but I was solidly opposed to adults having sex with little kids long before it was fashionable.  The current frenzy is a kneejerk reaction to recent events and microtrends don't interest me as much as big picture / long term trends.

[TruthFire]

Why put the people in an internment camp? That costs them to maintain you.

I didn't mean to suggest that they would MAINTAIN people in camps. Some of the camps have GIGANTIC GAS FURNACES. Apparently, you haven't seen the Google video yet.

While you're there, search for "Katrina" and "guns" and you will see how easy it was for Fed agents to show up at multi-million-dollar houses and just confiscate everyone's guns. They already did it to prove it was like taking candy from babies. If three goons showed up at YOUR door DEMANDING you turn in your guns, and they just FORCE their way into your home, what do you do next?

[JosephSHaas]

Public Hearing on acceptance of Treasury Check #__________ in the $amount of $6,500.00.

I just called Steve Halleran, the Plainfield, N.H. Town Administrator at 603: 469-3201 and he said that he MIGHT get the RSA Ch. 31:95b,III http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/html/III/31/31-95-b.htm 7-day notice in today or tomorrow for the Wed., Aug. 29th VALLEY NEWS @ page #___ to check then, so that the hearing can be held at their regular Selectmens' Meeting next Wed., Sept. 5th @ __:_ p.m., but that it'll probably be more like two weeks later for Wed., Sept. 19th '07 @ __:__ o'clock p.m. (since sometimes you've got to watch out for that other statute of not to include the days of notice and hearing, nor Sat. or Sun. nor any legal holiday).

He said to check the website too, http://www.plainfieldnh.org as it will be on there too.

Yours truly, - - Joe H.

Yup, It's on for next Wed., Sept. 5th @ 7:00 p.m.
See http://www.plainfieldnh.org/meeting_schedule.html

Yes, The vote last night was to accept these "federal monies", so said Steve Halleran to me on the telephone this morning at about 10:15 a.m. with the check now going to the Town Treasurer, Fred Sweet (of #____ Center of Town Road too, @ 675-2618) who will be in the Town Office at from 1:30-2:30 p.m. this afternoon, and maybe making that deposit of these RSA Ch. 390:6 "federal funds" [ http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/html/XXXV/390/390-6.htm ] to their account at the Mascoma Bank http://www.mascomabank.com in Lebanon this afternoon too. To get a copy of this check from Halleran IF the Town Attorney says so he said.

The check I presume is already signed by at least two of the Selectmen (as per RSA Ch. ____) to be monetized upon its deposit, whereby the bank is required by the statute to keep 12% of such in reserves, so leaving 88% available to be exchanged* or loaned out?, but before the latter might happen, is there anybody over there who can "follow the money" as they say?  To find out exactly WHEN this check is deposited, to at the same time, or immediately thereafter visit the bank to see if there really is this "ready money" or cash behind this check, needing maybe #___ hours before the funds are available to the public.  Or in other words: to be able to go to the bank and claim the "dollars" in coin and in the quality defined by the Coinage Act of 1792, Section 20 http://landru.i-link-2.net/monques/coinageact.html of which requires that: "all accounts in the public offices and all proceedings in the courts of the United States shall be kept and had in conformity to this regulation."  So does that mean that Town Account #_________ there with $_______________ on deposit has to be at the 100% rather than this 12% level? Thus gold and silver dollars in the Town Account, but not elsewhere? Then WHY would anybody ever accepting any Town Check #_______ settle for anything as debase as these copper-clad sandwich coins!? To give a call over to the bank to see if I can reserve some of these "federal monies" in exchange for these Federal Reserve Notes called "greenbacks", or promises to pay. To see if the written declaration of promise or pledge of future excellence is there or not!  - - J.S.H.

[Romak]

Why put the people in an internment camp? That costs them to maintain you.

I didn't mean to suggest that they would MAINTAIN people in camps. Some of the camps have GIGANTIC GAS FURNACES. Apparently, you haven't seen the Google video yet.

While you're there, search for "Katrina" and "guns" and you will see how easy it was for Fed agents to show up at multi-million-dollar houses and just confiscate everyone's guns. They already did it to prove it was like taking candy from babies. If three goons showed up at YOUR door DEMANDING you turn in your guns, and they just FORCE their way into your home, what do you do next?

Well the answer is pretty simple actually. Our home is equipped with security sensors that dont need electricity to run on and will be tripped before anyone gets within 50 feet of the home. We have two dogs of good size that are trained to attack on command yet are passive and very friendly to guests when we are around. We also have a network of friends some within 5 minutes of our home who can be alerted without the use of a phone. On top of that we are all very well armed and everyone in this house is trained to use each weapon very well. There is not a room in the house that doesnt have one in reach. They are all loaded and good to go. So it doesnt really matter what type of goon you refer to that would dead before they stepped one foot into my home. If by some miracle they grab us out of our home and drive us away they would have to do it in under five minutes or they would be met with resistence. Thats about as secure as I can make it. Guess the Russians can drop a bomb on my home and kill us all as long as they dont give us time to mount the 50 cal

[J’raxis 270145]

Why put the people in an internment camp? That costs them to maintain you.

I didn't mean to suggest that they would MAINTAIN people in camps. Some of the camps have GIGANTIC GAS FURNACES. Apparently, you haven't seen the Google video yet.

While you're there, search for "Katrina" and "guns" and you will see how easy it was for Fed agents to show up at multi-million-dollar houses and just confiscate everyone's guns. They already did it to prove it was like taking candy from babies. If three goons showed up at YOUR door DEMANDING you turn in your guns, and they just FORCE their way into your home, what do you do next?

Well the answer is pretty simple actually. Our home is equipped with ...

Well, it's not very secure when you're telling people about it so they know how to work around it, now is it? I and a some others in this thread already mentioned OPSEC and COMSEC, but I'll say it again—you're basically giving away detailed intel to the enemy by posting this.

[Romak]

Not at all. Im not worried about it one iota.

[Romak]

Forgot to also mention your enemy is the Federal Govt it seems. My home was set up to protect my family against criminals. There are a lot of sick people out there. I don't look at the Federal Govt as my enemy therefor I'm not concerned about the enemy you refer to.

[J’raxis 270145]

Forgot to also mention your enemy is the Federal Govt it seems. My home was set up to protect my family against criminals. There are a lot of sick people out there. I don't look at the Federal Govt as my enemy therefor I'm not concerned about the enemy you refer to.

The comment you were replying to was about federal agents going to people's homes to confiscate guns, so yes, I did assume that.

[TruthFire]

Forgot to also mention your enemy is the Federal Govt it seems. My home was set up to protect my family against criminals. There are a lot of sick people out there. I don't look at the Federal Govt as my enemy therefor I'm not concerned about the enemy you refer to.

It is the criminal factions WITHIN the Federal Govt which ARE the enemy. Or, more accurately, those factions which have been compromised and taken over by the global elite in a coordinated effort.

Read "Pawns in the Game" by Wm. Guy Carr (out of print, but still available at half.com). In 1773, Mayer Rothschild convened twelve other wealthy men (total of 13) in Frankfort, Germany and set forth his 25-point strategy, which they have followed PRECISELY over the past 230 years. How do we know about this meeting? A literal act-of-God. A lightening bolt struck and killed the courier on horseback who was taking the agenda to the meeting. His personal effects were examined, and people were stunned to find this plan.

What were his 25 goals?

#1 Use violence and terrorism rather than academic discussions
#2 Preach "Liberalism" to usurp political power
#3 Bring about class wars by substituting the word Freedom for Faith. "the aid of 'Capital' would be "entirely in our hands.'"
#4 Any and all means were justified, on the grounds that a moral code left a politician vulnerable. "Those who wish to rule must have recourse to cunning and make-believe because frankness and honesty are vices in politics"
#5 "To attack by the RIGHT of the strong, and scatter to the winds all existing forces of order and regulation, to reconstruct all existing institutions, and become sovereign Lord of all who left to us the RIGHTS to their powers by laying them down voluntarily in their 'liberalism.'"
#6 Remain invisible until the very moment when it has gained such strength that no cunning or force can undermine it.
#7 Use Mob Psychology to control the masses. "Without absolute despotism " one cannot rule efficiently
#8 Advocate the use of alcoholic liquors, drugs, moral corruption and all forms of vice, used systematically by "agenteurs" to corrupt the youth
#9 Seize property by any means and without hesitation, to secure submission and sovereignty.
#10 Foment wars, but direct the peace conferences so that neither of the combatants gain territory. They would be placed further in debt and therefore into our power.
#12 Choose candidates for public office who will be "servile and obedient to our commands, so they may be readily used as PAWNS IN OUR GAME
#13 Use the Press for propaganda to control all outlets of public information, while remaining in the shadows, clear of blame
#14 Make the masses believe they had been the prey of criminals. Then restore order to appear as the saviors.
#15 Create financial panics use use hunger to subjugate the masses.
#16 Infiltrate Freemasonry to take advantage of the Grand Orient Lodges to cloak the true nature of their work in philanthropy. Spread their atheistic-materialistic ideology amongst the Goyim. "When the hour strikes for our sovereign Lord of all the World to be crowned, these same hands will sweep away everything that might stand in his way."
#17 Use systematic deception, high-sounding phrases and popular slogans. "The opposite of what hs been promised can always be done afterwards... That is of no consequence."
#18 a Reign of Terror is the most economical way to bring about speedy subjection.
#19 Masquerade as political, financial and economic advisers to carry out our mandates with Diplomacy and without fear of exposing "the secret power behind national and international affairs."
#20 ULTIMATE WORLD GOVERNMENT is the goal. It will be necessary to establish huge monopolies, so even the largest fortunes of the Goyim will depend on us to such an extent that they will go to the bottom together with the credit of their governments ON THE DAY AFTER THE GREAT POLITICAL SMASH."
#21 Economic War. Rob the Goyim of their landed properties and industries with a combination of high taxes and unfair competition.
#22 Make the Goyim destroy each other so there will only be the proletariat left in the world, with a few millionaires devoted to our cause, and sufficient police and soldiers to protect our interest.
#23 Call it THE NEW ORDER. Appoint a Dictator
#24 Fool, bemuse and corrupt the younger members of society by teaching them theories and principles we know to be false.
#25 Twist national and international laws into a contradiction which first masks the law and afterwards hides it altogether. Substitute ARBITRATION for law.

DOES ANY OF THIS SOUND FAMILIAR? It has been faithfully followed for OVER 230 YEARS.

This meeting took place on the Judenstrasse in Germany, in a building under a Red Shield. What does "red shield" translate to in German? ROTHSCHILD.

Now do you think I am a "conspiracy theorist" kook? WAKE UP!!

Be sure to see Alex Jones' movies, "Terror Storm" and soon-to-be-released "End Game." If you are not yet shaken into the horrific realization of this massive plan, and how close they are to FINALLY EXECUTING IT, then these movies will certainly abolish any doubt.

[Romak]

Like Ive said before Im always willing to learn new things, so I'll check all of that out. get back to you when i do.