Freedom to Travel Event, Part 2

[Michael Fisher]

Mike, Kat made a joke, implying some of our friends might be planning criminal activity, and, you made a joke exacerbating the subject.

This is not true.

My joke was harmless, and I'm sure nobody at the NHLA would be offended by it. ?They would probably reply and say that they were lobbying for a decrease in violence, which is true. ?Then they'd added a grin and that would have been the end of it.

But instead my posts were deleted - without an explicit authorization from Kat, I might add.

I will not drop this subject until it is resolved.

[Kat Kanning]

What do you want to happen Mike?  I can't put your posts back.  I thought you overreacted completely.  Instead of talking to me about it, which WOULD have gotten a response, you go straight to a hunger strike?  Am I so hardnosed that I wouldn't have listened to you when you had a problem with something that happened here?   Is that really what you think of me?   

[Kat Kanning]

Here's the flyer I put together. Feel free to edit, print, whatever.

[attachment deleted by admin]

[Russell Kanning]

Have a few of questions about freedom to travel event this saturday.I know that I could find the answers by reading all the posts,but maybe you will forgive my laziness.1)I have never been to the Manchester airport.Do we meet somewhere or do we just mill about randomly?2)If we are to meet,then what time?3)Should we bring signs?or is? attendance enough?4)Does anyone need a ride?I am coming from Plymouth area.

The main event will take place next to the main screening area ato the top of the large staircase/escalator at noon.
You could bring whatever signs you think appropriate. Since we are trying to be as non-violent as possible, it would be nice for people to remain positive and friendly. If you can come talk to bystanders about what is happening, that will be very helpful.

[ZAF???]

I have only read a few pages of this 42 page manifesto and I have indeed enough information. As I read it, ZAF is some set of 'rules' that y'all must follow in order to have a 'peaceful' demonstration. Yet in the next breath I read Kanning stating that he might 'trip' and inadvertently violating the code. Interesting.

LeRuineur6 aka Slave, for a 'peaceful' individual you are very much interested in bullying and force. 'What if they get in your way physically?' 'I will not give up until I am forced.' What is all of that about? You are a bully looking for a fight, not really following the ZAF code are you... dangling precariously on the edge, Eh? Oh and the comment, "Absolutely refuse to give up your metal Bill of Rights'.. well, for the screeners to be able to find the BoR they would have to screen him, and that would have Mr. Kanning going along with the screening process.. a no no. And last I read the BoR, even a metal BoR is not on the prohibited item list. As an object alone it poses no threat, being that it is a flimsy, rounded piece of aluminum. The only threat from the Bill of Rights, even in a metal form, is to those of us who have to listen to you spout a warped interpretation of what it stands for and represents.

Russell, I promise you that there will be no force from the screeners. You are doing nothing than making their work day a little more interesting. You will not be getting any of the fanfare that you are looking for. Yes, there will be numerous news stations and papers covering your lunacy, but you will be coming off as nothing more than laughable. You are not breaking any laws by not having/showing an ID. You will be subjected to additional screening. That's it. If you refuse 'peacefully', the only consequences you will be facing is being escorted out of the screening and sterile area by the deputies. Very anti-climatic. If you decide to run or force your way in, then you are going against your ZAF code of conduct. And then you come off as a hypocrite. All of this is pretty comical to me and to that end I will be there on Saturday to see you fall on your face. A free show.

In all the 5 pages I read (and that was more than enough to figure out who you were are a group and individuals) I found the only thing that you are really fighting against is paranoia. All of this talk to 'secret laws' and such... It frightens me that there are so many of you? lunatics living in my state. You try very hard to come off as intelligent free thinkers, but you are not pulling it off convincingly. Gandhi has got to be rolling atthe thought that y'all have made him your guide. You are all small minded followers who have nothing better to do with your time. Find something else to do with you time... read a novel, volunteer at an AIDS hospice, anything. You have all kinds of problems with the US and its laws and such, yet you continue to live here and reap the wealth. Civil liberites and rights that you wouldn't have anywhere else... and you complain about them. Open you eyes, experience something else and see what it is really like out there... then jugde. But that would mean you stepping out of this encapsulated box you live in.

In closing, Mr. Kanning stated, 'I want to go to Philadelphia and I don't want the STATE to get in my way'. Well, my advice to you is to get in your car with your expired license and drive.

Cheers.

PS- Parking at the airport is $2 an hour... all of that $$ goes to state and government run scholarships. Better think about getting buses, eh?

[Russell Kanning]

I think most americans do not know about the rules that allow you to get on a plane without ID, but with an additional search. They will learn something through this process. If the screeners treat me decently and do not do any really intrusive searching, then maybe we have paved a way for other travelers to enjoy flying again.

[ZAF???]

ZAP, ZAF... what does it really matter? it is still a rule... aren't y'all against those? Either way, thank you for the correction and definition.

Having read that I truly believe that LeRuineur is not a libertarian, overly agressive person that he is. It's all about the 'force', intended or inadverant... just like Darth Vadar.

[Russell Kanning]

I am not really into using complicated phraseology like ZAP. I just don't have any intention of hurting any of the TSA workers and I am confident that they will not be harming me either. I don't think anyone on this thread has predicted that the TSA would tackle me or beat me.

[Russell Kanning]

I don't see how Mike Fisher has ever exhibited threatening behaviour and his track record shows he is decent civil individual.

Some guys take the ZAP so seriously.....that is why I joke about tripping and violating the principle.

[AlanM]

ZAP, ZAF... what does it really matter? it is still a rule... aren't y'all against those? Either way, thank you for the correction and definition.

Having read that I truly believe that LeRuineur is not a libertarian, overly agressive person that he is. It's all about the 'force', intended or inadverant... just like Darth Vadar.

You obviously don't know what a libertarian is, or you wouldn't have said this. To say that Mike is an overly aggressive person is just ludicrous. You need to do more research and thinking before you post.

[GT]

Some people may not agree with Russell, everyone has their own vision of what liberty is and how to get there.

You have all kinds of problems with the US and its laws and such, yet you continue to live here and reap the wealth. Civil liberites and rights that you wouldn't have anywhere else... and you complain about them. Open you eyes, experience something else and see what it is really like out there... then jugde.

I don't disagree. The US is a great place to live. The question is what direction are we moving. In the ast 20 years look at all the laws that have sprung up. For what? What do they acomplish? Was the US such a terrible place 50, 100 200 years ago?

[Russell Kanning]

I can even think that the US is the best country in the world and still have issues with it.

BTW ....ZAF...how did you hear about these events? I am interested to know how people find us.

[YeahItsMeJP]

ZAF??? -

You seem to think this is all we are about -- protests and civil disobedience. Among supporting my friends here who are willing to take a public stand (using their REAL NAME, btw), I also volunteer for charitable organizations, read novels, go to the beach, attend parties, go to clubs and work.

Interestingly enough, most everyone here does the same kind of stuff. I have seen Mike and Russell promoting educational scholarships and helping with road-side clean-ups. We've discussed novels we've read, we go to parties, attend clubs, and work.

Thanks for reminding me just how hard my friends here work for freedom while balancing their day-to-day lives. I am proud to stand by them, through thick and thin. "My life, my fortune and my sacred honour."

JP

[ZAF???]

As I said, I only read 5 or 6 pages before posting... in each of Mr. Fisher's posts he is aggressive. As a person he may not act aggressively, but it isn't something that will not crop up eventually. Reread his posts in the first bits of the forum and you might well see what I see. All of his 'what-ifs' are of a forceful nature. A truly 'peaceful' man would not have these thoughts consistantly. The government, nor the world, is out to get any one of us.. yet that is what he puts out as believing. Mr. Fisher's words could very well be up for interpretation, but that is how I am seeing it. He is someone who will eventually, maybe not Saturday, flip.

I came into this with an open mind. I have a few friends who work for the airport and was curious of the days agenda. As far as research is concerned, I think that y'all really need to to do little more of it. You aren't fighting the right fight. Who cares if you need or do not need an ID to board a plane? In the end, what exactly are you fighting? No one is saying that you cannot board the plane without ID, they are saying that you need to be screened... something that happened well before 9/11. The only difference is now you are getting screened by a federal employee. And to that end, why would you want to take a plane? It is clearly stated that you are paying a government security fee when you purchase the ticket. Whether you have complied or not at the checkpoint, by purchasing the ticket you are in a way agreeing with the security measures by giving them that fee. Hell, just standing in the line at the security checkpoint is implied consent. There is no getting around that. (And prior to 9/11 you were still paying that fee, it just wasn't gov't based).

'In the ast 20 years look at all the laws that have sprung up. For what? What do they acomplish? Was the US such a terrible place 50, 100 200 years ago?' No one is saying that the US has gotten worse as far as living standards go... in fact they have, for the most part, gotten better. But the question you are asking is easily answered like this... the world was a different place back then. There are so many 'things' out there that are plaguing us in this day; guns, bombs, terrorists. This is a short list. These things aren't going away and are becoming more prevalent in this society. We need to protect ourselves and others from what could happen... this is done with the laws that the government has in place. Do I believe in all of them? No, of course not, but I abide by them as a means to an end. Do I like going through security? I am a woman and my process is more invasive that a mans and I am embarrassed to have to go through it. But, I will if it means that the screener (who is just as uncomfortable as I) will find an IED or gun on the next woman that comes through. I know that I am safe, but how can I trust the next person in line? In this day and age and all the news stores that are out there about things that are found and what have you I feel safer going through a bit of inconvenience.

[ZAF???]

I found you by looking you up on the web. Easy enough to do with a search engine.  As far as my name is concerned... I do not wish to have my name known by a group such as your own. Thou you seem mostly harmless, it is easy enough to look someone's address online and I am not really interested in being haressed by an affiliate group.

You never can tell with bees.