Freedom to Travel Event, Part 4

[foreverfree]

"Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country". ?

Your love of this statement says a lot about you. The government means more than the indiviual, to you. I feel sorry for you.

Actually I said NOTHING about the government.  When I say "this country"  I mean the United States of America NOT the US Government.  This country is not the US Government.  It is a set of values and ideals formed by a diverse people and YOU should do something useful towards that.

[GT]

"Freedom to Travel"....this is the name of your so-called attempt at civil disobedience.? You failed to prove a point though.? The only point you made is that we all have the freedom to travel.? If you all do not like the government so much and them "pressing" into your lives when you fly, why don't you fly your own plane.? Just go out, buy a cessna, and fly where ever you want.? All that you did is waste the taxpayers money.? Now we have to pay the Feds overtime, the cops overtime, the courts, bailliffs, etc.? Thanks for wasting America's time and our money.? Why not just drive, take a bus, TAKE A HIKE!? There is more than one way to travel in this great country.? How about instead of crying and whinning about "the man" bringing you down by stopping you and wasting your precious 5 minutes of Dungeons and Dragons time, you could rally to get a nation wide train system in place.? Or even come up with a completely new alternative to air travel.? "Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country".? That quote is the greatest idea ever thought up.? If we all did that this country would be even greater than it already is.? So stop whinning and make a USEFUL change.

What has the TSA (big government solution) done that a private company could not for far less money? The point is not security, it is govenment butting in where it does not belong. Should we have federal agents at every school, bus station, Wal Mart to protect us?

[foreverfree]

The TSA created a standard.  They make it the same all across the board.  Which in turn, makes it fair.  That way no one can say that one place is more lax than another.  There is no such thing as a perfect system.  There has to be some form of screening though.  I think we all can agree there.

[AlanM]

"Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country". ?

Your love of this statement says a lot about you. The government means more than the indiviual, to you. I feel sorry for you.

Actually I said NOTHING about the government.? When I say "this country"? I mean the United States of America NOT the US Government.? This country is not the US Government.? It is a set of values and ideals formed by a diverse people and YOU should do something useful towards that.

Kennedy was refering to the Gov.
I am doing something useful towards that, I am working to reclaim the rights supposedly guaranteed to us in the Constitution. You seem quite willing to relinquish those rights for a little temporary "sense" of security.

[Dave Ridley]

foreverfree wrote:

<<When I say "this country"  I mean the United States of America NOT the US Government.  This country is not the US Government. >>

That's a good way to look at it FF.  This is what I love so much about NH...even people who don't support what we are doing have some part of them that "gets it."

[Dave Ridley]

<<The only point you made is that we all have the freedom to travel. >>

You're correct on that point too, sort of.  Russell helped get the word out to people that they can travel without I.D., if they submit to the secondary search.   Most of us didn't know that before the protest and neither did he.   With luck, this will help spare hundreds or someday maybe even thousands of people the ordeal I went through trying to obtain I.D. for a relative because we thought she needed it to fly.

[FTL_Ian]

The TSA created a standard.  They make it the same all across the board.  Which in turn, makes it fair.  That way no one can say that one place is more lax than another.  There is no such thing as a perfect system.  There has to be some form of screening though.  I think we all can agree there.

I disagree.  We should have liberty.  That means each airline deciding on its own what level of screening to have.  If I want to start an airline with no "security" procedures that allows weapons on board, I should be free to do that.  I know that's the airline I'd choose to fly on!

[JonM]

Feed not the troll.

[AlanM]

Feed not the troll.

Sorry. I had some spare crumbs I wanted to get rid of. I'll be more careful in the future. 

[foreverfree]

The TSA created a standard.? They make it the same all across the board.? Which in turn, makes it fair.? That way no one can say that one place is more lax than another.? There is no such thing as a perfect system.? There has to be some form of screening though.? I think we all can agree there.

I disagree.? We should have liberty.? That means each airline deciding on its own what level of screening to have.? If I want to start an airline with no "security" procedures that allows weapons on board, I should be free to do that.? I know that's the airline I'd choose to fly on!

That is a great theory, but it could only be a theory.  You can't forget what happened on September 11th.  I would love to not have to go through screening, but someone has to make sure that people aren't bringing on things that could hurt other people.  Even if all the people on your "airline" are willing to do that.  There are people on the ground, in buildings, etc that would not want to get hurt from one person not wanting to be screened. 
I think what you guys aren't seeing in this world is that there are a LOT of people who want all of us, including you, completely removed from this earth.  They are looking for any weakness in our system.  People have tried to obtain Eutopia since the beginning of time and it will never happen.  There are SOME things that we have to live with.  Can the system be bettered?  Of course, but I think there are bigger fish to fry. 

[foreverfree]

<<The only point you made is that we all have the freedom to travel. >>

You're correct on that point too, sort of.? Russell helped get the word out to people that they can travel without I.D., if they submit to the secondary search.? ?Most of us didn't know that before the protest and neither did he.? ?With luck, this will help spare hundreds or someday maybe even thousands of people the ordeal I went through trying to obtain I.D. for a relative because we thought she needed it to fly.

That is all well and good, but get arrested over it?  That proved nothing.  He took it too far and now look at all the money he has wasted.  Time and energy gone.  He should have submitted to the screening and made a statement about the ID.  People have been flying without ID's for years.  I don't know what he discovered.  I think you guys need to do a little more research into things before you act on them.  You made yourselves look pretty dumb.  Most everyone I know said, "Yeah, we know we don't need an ID."  I think if you guys did this a little farther away from the release of Star Wars you wouldn't have been so distracted and might have figured out that everyone knows what "Lord Kanning" discovered. 
Well, whatever makes your cult happy....good times.

[Michael Fisher]

I think what you guys aren't seeing in this world is that there are a LOT of people who want all of us, including you, completely removed from this earth.

Really?

I thought they just wanted to be left alone.

But that will never happen.  That is why they are so desperate.

Do you truly believe that a human being on this Earth wants to kill thousands of others only because they are more free?  Why?  Out of jealousy?  ???

[foreverfree]

I think what you guys aren't seeing in this world is that there are a LOT of people who want all of us, including you, completely removed from this earth.

Really?

I thought they just wanted to be left alone.

But that will never happen.? That is why they are so desperate.

You are absolutely right.  There are people in this world who hate the idea that our government allows us to be so free.  I have spoken with people who have said it to me.  I was in Iraq and saw it first hand.  Just so you know, you have no basis to speak on that.  Until you have been there and spoken with the people you have no ground.  Why do you think that the two towers fell?  Do you think those people wanted us to leave them alone?  I don't remember doing anything to Afghanistan or Saudi Arabia.

Do you truly believe that a human being on this Earth wants to kill thousands of others only because they are more free?? Why?? Out of jealousy?? ???

[Michael Fisher]

You are absolutely right.? There are people in this world who hate the idea that our government allows us to be so free.? I have spoken with people who have said it to me.? I was in Iraq and saw it first hand.? Just so you know, you have no basis to speak on that.? Until you have been there and spoken with the people you have no ground.? Why do you think that the two towers fell?? Do you think those people wanted us to leave them alone?? I don't remember doing anything to Afghanistan or Saudi Arabia.

I have been friends for a decade with a man who was sent to Iraq for a long time and who is still stationed in Germany.? He never said anything to me about someone over there claiming they hate our freedom.? I hope it does not offend you, but I do not believe you at all.

You didn't "do anything" to Afghanistan before 9/11, our government did.? If you are not aware of the US government's funding of Al Qaeda in its fight against the USSR, then perhaps you should study history a little more.? Afghanistan was a flourishing country that was left completely destroyed by the manipulative cold war battles of the USSR and USA.? The US government used the people of Afghanistan as pawns in a game of chess against the USSR.? There is no question in my mind why they are upset.

If the basis of your current belief system is the assumption of innocence of the US government against any claims of wrongdoing in Afghanistan, then I believe you should questions your assumptions more often.

[foreverfree]

You are absolutely right.? There are people in this world who hate the idea that our government allows us to be so free.? I have spoken with people who have said it to me.? I was in Iraq and saw it first hand.? Just so you know, you have no basis to speak on that.? Until you have been there and spoken with the people you have no ground.? Why do you think that the two towers fell?? Do you think those people wanted us to leave them alone?? I don't remember doing anything to Afghanistan or Saudi Arabia.

I have been friends for a decade with a man who was sent to Iraq for a long time and who is still stationed in Germany.? He never said anything to me about someone over there claiming they hate our freedom.? I hope it does not offend you, but I do not believe you at all.

You didn't "do anything" to Afghanistan before 9/11, our government did.? If you are not aware of the US government's funding of Al Qaeda in its fight against the USSR, then perhaps you should study history a little more.? Afghanistan was a flourishing country that was left completely destroyed by the manipulative cold war battles of the USSR and USA.? The US government used the people of Afghanistan as pawns in a game of chess against the USSR.? There is no question in my mind why they are upset.

If the basis of your current belief system is the assumption of innocence of the US government against any claims of wrongdoing in Afghanistan, then I believe you should questions your assumptions more often.

I don't expect you to believe anything that I say.  I don't know what your friends job is in the military, but I am in the infantry and was on combat patrols daily.  We interacted everyday with the ICDC (Iraqi Civil Defense Corp) and the people of Iraq.  95% of the soldiers stationed in Iraq never leave their base.  The same amount never even get to talk to Iraqi civilians.  We were fighting Somalians, Iraqis, Pakistani, Iranians, etc.  I have talked, through an interpreter, to some of the people that we captured that were killing Americans and Iraqis over there.  They told me, to my face, that they hated the fact that our women are allowed to vote, work, and dress however they want. 
I am not sure if you have ever travelled outside of the United States, but our freedoms are leaps and bounds beyond that of any country (minus UK and Australia and a few others).  They are on a parallel level as us. 
So whether you buy my story or not is up to you, but I can tell you that there are a lot of people in this world who hate us and even more who are envious of all of our freedoms.  You should be thankful for all that you have.