Kelo Report, Part 1

[Kat Kanning]

Jim's totally forgiven in my book.  Up until today, I had a lot of respect for Jason Sorens.  I have lost every shred of respect I had for him.  When the chips are down, he's not only not here on such a critical issue, he's stabbing her in the back.  Freedom will never be won with people like Jason.

[Pat K]

UM were is the jail? Were should protesters meet?

[Lloyd Danforth]

201 west Main St., Niantic, CT, I think.

I know from visiting my nephew in one of the men's prisons, they are not always easy to get right in front of.

[Lloyd Danforth]

Jim's totally forgiven in my book.? Up until today, I had a lot of respect for Jason Sorens.? I have lost every shred of respect I had for him.? When the chips are down, he's not only not here on such a critical issue, he's stabbing her in the back.? Freedom will never be won with people like Jason.

In Jason's defence, no stable adult, under any circumstances, duress, anything, should make a statement like: "wipe out every person on the planet"

and

whats with this stuffed bear shit?

[SethCohn]

Jim's totally forgiven in my book.  Up until today, I had a lot of respect for Jason Sorens.  I have lost every shred of respect I had for him.  When the chips are down, he's not only not here on such a critical issue, he's stabbing her in the back.  Freedom will never be won with people like Jason.

So when Lloyd says he thinks Lauren's making a mistake, you'll agree to disagree, but when Jason uses the same logic, you get up in arms and insult him?  Kat, double standard.

Lloyd, didn't say anything about that till now but your posts have been right on the money for me... You voiced my concerns.

[SethCohn]

Posting this for Alan, per his wishes.  Complaints to him, please.

Feel free to post this on the FSP website, or wherever you think it
might do some good.

Often in the course of the evolution of an organization, it faces a time
when a decision has to be reached on whether or not it is "going
radical", or will continue to "work within the system for change."  The
Southern Christian Leadership Conference under Dr. Martin Luther King,
Jr. faced its crisis, its decision point, as did the NAACP during the
1960's Civil Rights movement.

Many of you have heard of Lauren Canario and her quest to protest the
Kelo vs. New London decision.

Surprisingly in the life of the Free State Project, this is not the
time.  There is no crises.  There is no decision to make, no Rubicon to
cross.

Lauren Canario drove all the way from the western United States to
Connecticut to protest the Kelo vs. New London abomination [the taking
of property for purposes of governmental increases in taxation stolen].
   Not content to protest peacefully, Lauren decided to challenge the
ominpotent State, got herself thoroughly arrested, appeared in court,
and refuses to speak.

At first, I believed she was like Gandhi, practicing non-violent
protest, one brave individual against The System.  Her non-compliance
with the Judge might indeed speak volumes by her very silence, a silent
witness to the futility of words in a system where mere words mean
little - including the words of "liberty and justice for all."

But we must consider the idea that Lauren, and her husband James
Johnson, are merely sad Quixote-esque characters, but without the moral
cloak of the good Don.  James has made public statements advocating
violence, serious statements.  We can sympathize with his frustration at
the system, but what exactly did he expect?  Did he expect that Lauren
would not be arrested?  If he, and Lauren, expected and indeed wanted to
be arrested, are statements like, "I want to kill these Nazis... like
our forefathers killed Nazis" really designed to rally support amongst
friends of liberty?

Like Rick Stanley of Colorado, another brave but foolish foot soldier in
the continuing drama of the struggle to retain liberty on this
continent, Lauren and James have seemingly blown it.  Rather than
providing principled leadership, James sounds more like an agent
provocateur (or, perhaps, just a very frustrated, clueless husband).  As
Claire Wolfe has noted repeatedly, if you find yourself in a patriotic
group where someone is yelling for violent overthrow of the US
Government, the odds are very good that they are the plants, the
infiltrators.  Real patriots know there is a time and a place, and a plan.

Dr. King had a plan.  George Washington, and Sam Adams, and Benjamin
Franklin, had a plan.  What were the plans of Lauren and James?  Where
is their legal team?  Where is their organization, their organized and
peaceful street protests, their bail fund, their savvy use of the media
and the Press, their use of humor and intelligence?  And where is their
sense of timing?

The Free State Project is an effort to encourage 20,000 liberty-minded
individuals to move to New Hampshire, and once there have the pledged
individuals work for liberty.  it is a peaceful organization, and
libertarian organizations especially must be because of our shared
believe that we can harm no one who has specifically harmed us as
individuals.  We most certainly must keep our powder dry, our eyes open,
and our commitment to liberty firm.  This includes a commitment to the
Non-Aggression Principle, for if you do have that, can you call yourself
a libertarian?  No sir.  No ma'am.

Connecticut is not New Hampshire.  Moreover, while we - and and
overwhelming number of Americans - know that Kelo vs. New London is a
violation of the Bill of Rights no matter what the Supreme Court might
say.  We also share with our fellow Americans the sense that this will
be overturned by nearly all state legislatures, that non-violent protest
is appropriate and acceptable, but that calling officials "Nazi's" (a
violation of Godwin's Law, by the way) and advocating killing them as we
killed Nazi's is simply not acceptable behavior - and really stupid
"thinking."

The Free State Project will not be sullied by this.  We will not be
taunted by those who advocate violence, bullied into intemperate and
ill-advised masochistic slaughter.  Technically, there *is* no "we",
because individuals in the FSP are simply that:  individuals.  It is up
to each of us to decide What To Do.  But one thing the FSP will not do
is endorse violence.

We wish Lauren and James would retract their statements, publicly.  We
wish Lauren well in her protest.  We wish a lot of things.

Alan R. Weiss
[speaking for himself, and not for the FSP itself]

[Kat Kanning]

I'll have to mention to the press how I represent the FSP tomorrow.

[Kat Kanning]

So when Lloyd says he thinks Lauren's making a mistake, you'll agree to disagree, but when Jason uses the same logic, you get up in arms and insult him?  Kat, double standard.

Jim apologized and said he'd said that stuff in anger and regretted it.  I think Jason has shown his true colors, and his true colors and the modus operandi of the FSP = COVER YOUR ASS.

[SethCohn]

I'll have to mention to the press how I represent the FSP tomorrow.

I think Jason has shown his true colors, and his true colors and the modus operandi of the FSP = COVER YOUR ASS

Well, if you're going to represent the FSP, at least you know the party line you have to hold (grin).

Kat, your disagreement with this general position of the FSP is well known, well publicized, and long standing.
You left over leadership over this very sort of issue.  I see NOTHING new here, so take a deep breath, call Jason (and the rest of FSP leadership, including me and others) the dorks you think we are, and move on... we can't stop you from doing what you want to do... but claiming you represent the FSP is unlikely to help the situation and just add more smoke and flames. (And not in a helpful flag burning way, either)

[Lloyd Danforth]

Jim's totally forgiven in my book.? Up until today, I had a lot of respect for Jason Sorens.? I have lost every shred of respect I had for him.? When the chips are down, he's not only not here on such a critical issue, he's stabbing her in the back.? Freedom will never be won with people like Jason.

So when Lloyd says he thinks Lauren's making a mistake, you'll agree to disagree, but when Jason uses the same logic, you get up in arms and insult him?? Kat, double standard.

Lloyd, didn't say anything about that till now but your posts have been right on the money for me... You voiced my concerns.

I don't have any concerns. ?I just don't think Lauren's planned incarceration over absolutely nothing is worth my protesting.

I understand the guy above wore a skirt to an all woman cars wash.

[Kat Kanning]

This is how rumors start.

[Lloyd Danforth]

You mean he didn't wear a skirt to the car wash?

[Pat K]

Man these guys could be on the Bush spin team- they take one off the cuff remark by a husband under stress and want to tar every one ?who opeses Kelo as advacating violence. .

[Kat Kanning]

You mean he didn't wear a skirt to the car wash?

He said it was a kilt.

[SethCohn]

I don't have any concerns.  I just don't think Lauren's planned incarceration over absolutely nothing is worth my protesting.

'Concerns' is probably the wrong word to use.  I just found myself nodding in agreement with your view of it, and reasoning.

I know, I know.... "If Seth thinks that... gee, maybe I'm wrong...."

I understand the guy above wore a skirt to an all woman cars wash.

Russell was there too.... and Gardner... and Bender.  We all looked lovely.  We missed you, Lloyd.