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Secession

Started by Russell Kanning, December 19, 2005, 06:11 PM NHFT

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AlanM

Quote from: Scott Roth on January 14, 2006, 11:07 PM NHFT
You know, somehow I feel that secession is not the answer.? I mean, if we are going to want to set things right, we need to educate everyone, including those that aren't in NH yet.? Secession can only make us look like total radicals...people that need to be avoided.? Bad education values there, I figure...

The way I look at it, in 1776 there were folks who had enough of a powerful, distant government. They were considered radicals at the time, and patriots now.

Friday

Quote from: russellkanning on January 02, 2006, 04:05 PM NHFT
I guess I have about 3 issues going.

Personal secession from all governments
Keene Property Tax Revolt
State of NH secession

I was thinking that I only have one statewide issue ..... and that is secession.

What do you guys think of NH secession?

I'm leaning towards option #1, personal secession from all governments, myself.  I've been thinking a lot about this, and about the remarks made by various people, about the Freedom Friends Tuath, and of course putting my own demented spin on it all.  ;)  I'm sure someone else out there has thought all this before, but let me see if I can put it into words:


  • most of our (by "our", I refer to the FSP participants, the NHLA, the "good" natives) efforts are merely fiddling while Rome burns.  zackbass is right; if we manage to pull off one legislative success, they slip in 20 new stinky laws while our attention was focused elsewhere.  We will ALWAYS be outnumbered philosophically, so I don't see any reason to expect this to change. I say this from the perspective of an active part of the NHLA triage team struggling in vain just to read all the crap that's going through the House right now, let alone find the time and energy to FIGHT it

  • you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.  rogerpemberton is right, too.  People will make up their own minds.  Some will favor small government and personal responsibility. Many will not. The largest number will be too focused on "Dangerous Housewives" to even ponder what they believe, or the consequences of their actions.  Education is a noble and respectful goal, but is to a large extent futile.

  • we live in a very, very different world than the Founding Fathers did, or that any generation of our species, in fact.  We can travel anywhere on the planet within about a day! And we can communicate instantaneously, and for free, with anyone anywhere who's hooked up to the Internet.  On the flipside, the vast majority of us no longer control our own food supply; no matter what happens politically, we will be pawns to the multinational corporations that grow our wheat and raise our cows for us. Homesteading is another noble goal, but only works for a tiny minority of people, and just plain isn't an option for most of us.
I'm thinking we need to expand the envelope here. What is a "country" in this age of high speed, affordable travel, speed-of-light communication and weapons that can obliterate an entire city with the push of a button?  What is "citizenship"?  What *should* it be?  I'm not an anarchist, and I'm fully aware of the fact that I can't survive on my own; I need the assistance of others with skills, abilities and access to resources that I lack.  Given the current realities, what is the best way for me to go about creating a nation that I would choose to join and be an active citizen?

I have a vague notion at the moment of some kind of guild, brotherhood, etc.  Kind of like the Tuath, but different.  I think the Tuath is on the right track, but I have a slightly different concept of what is needed.

Anyway, don't know if this is making ANY sense  :-\




Friday

more thoughts:

The whole concept of citizenship being determined by where, geographically, you happen to be born, or what womb, biologically, you happened to pop out of, is woefully antiquated in my opinion.  We all know people who were born in the U.S. who don't DESERVE to be American citizens. And most of us probably know fine human beings who sincerely want to be American citizens who, for various reasons, are not allowed to be.  Citizenship entails both rights and responsibilities. It shouldn't be automatic for anybody. By the way, I just watched "Starship Troopers", great B movie that discusses this concept.

Perhaps citizenship should be more like the way it works in the Catholic Church*.  When you're born, your parents or someone else who accepts full responsibility for you get you in (baptism).  But once you reach the age of maturity, you are expected to take it to the next level by proactively stating your intention to be an adult-level, active participant (confirmation).

*not to be construed as an endorsement

AlanM

Friday,
You say you are not an anarchist, but you choose option 1: Personal secession from all governments

Isn't that anarchy?

Friday

No, Alan.  I said I'm "leaning towards" option #1. Second of all, I was trying to say that I am thinking about creating a new kind of nation, not trying to live without any. Sorry for my poor communication skills.

FYI, I'm an active member of the NHLP and the NHLA, and I always vote, so it would be quite a stretch indeed to call me an anarchist.  :)

Lloyd Danforth

Quote from: calibaba77 on January 14, 2006, 10:52 PM NHFT
I'm with Alan.? There is TREMENDOUS support for secession here in NH.?Caleb

Practically all of it on this forum.

AlanM

Quote from: Friday on January 15, 2006, 07:30 AM NHFT
No, Alan.? I said I'm "leaning towards" option #1. Second of all, I was trying to say that I am thinking about creating a new kind of nation, not trying to live without any. Sorry for my poor communication skills.

FYI, I'm an active member of the NHLP and the NHLA, and I always vote, so it would be quite a stretch indeed to call me an anarchist.? :)

Gotcha.  ;)

Russell Kanning

I like the way you are thinking.
Voluntary associations make so much more sense, than geographical ones.

Russell Kanning

Even during the colonial period in america, they bought stuff from a long ways away. I am not going to give up my bananas. I am willing to give up connections with any bad governments. :)

Lex

Quote from: Friday on January 15, 2006, 07:30 AM NHFT
No, Alan.  I said I'm "leaning towards" option #1. Second of all, I was trying to say that I am thinking about creating a new kind of nation, not trying to live without any. Sorry for my poor communication skills.

FYI, I'm an active member of the NHLP and the NHLA, and I always vote, so it would be quite a stretch indeed to call me an anarchist.  :)

You can be an anarchist and still vote today.

Being an anarchist and being oblivious to the fact that we don't live in an anarchist society would be pretty silly in my opinion.

Russell Kanning

I need to seceed fron all these anarchists that vote. ;)

AlanM

Quote from: russellkanning on January 15, 2006, 10:30 AM NHFT
I need to seceed fron all these anarchists that vote. ;)

We won't let you successfully secede.  ;D

Lex

Quote from: russellkanning on January 15, 2006, 10:30 AM NHFT
I need to seceed fron all these anarchists that vote. ;)

Voting-Anarchist, someone should add a wikipedia entry for that   :o

FTL_Ian

Quote from: AlanM on January 14, 2006, 11:07 PM NHFT
Both old and young, I hear people say every day, "When does the revolution start."

It's started, they just don't know it yet. 

TackleTheWorld

Quote from: Friday on January 15, 2006, 06:51 AM NHFT
I'm thinking we need to expand the envelope here. What is a "country" in this age of high speed, affordable travel, speed-of-light communication and weapons that can obliterate an entire city with the push of a button?  What is "citizenship"?  What *should* it be?  I'm not an anarchist, and I'm fully aware of the fact that I can't survive on my own; I need the assistance of others with skills, abilities and access to resources that I lack.  Given the current realities, what is the best way for me to go about creating a nation that I would choose to join and be an active citizen?

Ebay
It's got no geographical limits.
It has a community of people and a way to rank their success within it.
It helps you find things you need and sell things you have too much of.
I don't think it can use force against it's members.

Would you be a citizen of Ebay?