I'm not sure what "subject" line to write so I'm just going with "The Bible"

[MaineShark]

Do you think the bible was initially the divine word of God and then translated incorrectly?  If all of the bibles are corrupted. so to say. then how can people be following God's word the "right" way?

I'm an ignostic, which basically means that, until someone presents a definition of "god" that defines an entity whose existence can actually be tested-for, the question is pointless.

"God" must be defined, before we can discuss whether "god" exists.

How are people supposed to live their lives by a book full of errors?

Seems like a shoddy way to run a universe, to me.  "Pick from among the following ten thousand different belief systems, which are mutually-contradictory, and if you pick wrong, you get tortured for eternity, because I love you so much."  The State is less unjust than that.

[Raineyrocks]

Do you think the bible was initially the divine word of God and then translated incorrectly?  If all of the bibles are corrupted. so to say. then how can people be following God's word the "right" way?

I'm an ignostic, which basically means that, until someone presents a definition of "god" that defines an entity whose existence can actually be tested-for, the question is pointless.

"God" must be defined, before we can discuss whether "god" exists.

How are people supposed to live their lives by a book full of errors?

Seems like a shoddy way to run a universe, to me.  "Pick from among the following ten thousand different belief systems, which are mutually-contradictory, and if you pick wrong, you get tortured for eternity, because I love you so much."  The State is less unjust than that.

I understand what your saying completely but in which ways could "god" be defined?  Energy, maybe?  For the most part, unless I'm thrown off track for awhile like I was when I began this thread, I believe that there is a "creator" and I call him God but mostly due to conditioning.  I've tried to refer to "the creator" in other terms but then it just doesn't sound right to me; like I said conditioning.  What could have created all that "is" ?   

I've tried to read many types of bibles and can't understand the needy, schizophrenic, narcissistic, "god", that is presented in the Old Testament and then this cool, rational, loving, "son of god" that is presented in the New Testament.  They are supposed to be "One in the same"?   Errrrr!  Yet, in the bible Jesus says something like the road to eternal life is narrow and the road to hell is wide so choose the correct one.  How?  God gives Moses commandments that we should all follow yet if we even have a fleeting thought against one of these commandments, we are guilty of committing them?  What?  I can sit here and have an evil thought but if I don't perform the evil act then what have I done wrong?  God even told certain tribes to go out and pillage and take young virgins and basically rape them?  Also, according to the Old Testament we can only get married one time until our spouse dies but then in the New Testament that "rule" changes?  If God put these commandments forth for us to follow why then has he broken almost every single one of them himself?  Blah, blah, blah. 

If I raised my children in this fashion they would suffer from Dissociative identity disorder not to mention a few other disorders but pastors preach that it all makes sense if we have faith?  Yeah, because it's impossible to argue faith vs. logic, I suppose.  If God was "All", why would he need or want a relationship with us?  Why would he require sacrifices, etc? All of these requirements show a clear "need" of some sort, don't they?  Sorry, I could go on and on but like you wrote, "God" must be defined, before we can discuss whether "god" exists". So really all of this is mute, sorry.


When I read and listened to some of Bill Schnoebelen's information I was impressed by his knowledge however as of yet he has not proven to me that the Authorized King James version of the bible has been untainted.  You can't teach someone to believe in any book by quoting from "that book" that they don't believe in.  Am I nuts or is that logic? 

What I don't understand though is when I say prayers, they seem to be answered a lot of times, maybe it's my own energy that answers them?  The most important prayer to me never seems to get answered though and that is which bible or religion is the correct one.  I don't know.    Again, I feel something spirtual that is beyond me but is that because of how I was raised?

[Jim Johnson]

The King James version of the Bible is the most adulterated version, because it was written so that King James could get a divorce.

[MaineShark]

I understand what your saying completely but in which ways could "god" be defined?  Energy, maybe?  For the most part, unless I'm thrown off track for awhile like I was when I began this thread, I believe that there is a "creator" and I call him God but mostly due to conditioning.  I've tried to refer to "the creator" in other terms but then it just doesn't sound right to me; like I said conditioning.  What could have created all that "is" ?   

I dunno, but when a stereotypical girly-girl turns four and blows out her candles, she should be wishing for a pony, or a ballerina costume, or a pony wearing a ballerina costume, not "I wish mommy didn't have cancer," so if someone did create this mess of a universe, that entity was incompetent, sadistic, or both.

No omnipotent, omniscient, benevolent creature would create a universe in which any child ever had to wish something like that.

[Kevin Bean]

Okay, but other people have existed and taught love, peace, and non-cooperation with injustice too.  So should I worship Martin Luther King, Jr.?   I'm not being obnoxious, it's just a logical question in my mind.    

Sorry, for taking your comment out of line and suggesting that it had to do with me.

No apology necessary.

No, you shouldn't worship Dr. King. He was one in a long line of spiritual/philosophical descendants of Jesus. Many of these people believed Jesus is the divine son of God. Many scholars of history argue that for Jesus, though, the coming of the Kingdom of God was a real event that would take place in Jerusalem in the not-too-distant future. He was a devout human taking a stand against oppression at a particular time and place. For those who've seen through the BS and the brutality of Christianity to find Jesus' message of love, his teachings continue to inspire bold stands for the sake of justice.

The fact that that has continued for so many centuries surely sets Jesus apart from all who came after. That might not merit worship. In fact, having learned more about the historical Jesus, I can probably relate to Jesus the man better than Jesus the Christ.

[Raineyrocks]

I understand what your saying completely but in which ways could "god" be defined?  Energy, maybe?  For the most part, unless I'm thrown off track for awhile like I was when I began this thread, I believe that there is a "creator" and I call him God but mostly due to conditioning.  I've tried to refer to "the creator" in other terms but then it just doesn't sound right to me; like I said conditioning.  What could have created all that "is" ?   

I dunno, but when a stereotypical girly-girl turns four and blows out her candles, she should be wishing for a pony, or a ballerina costume, or a pony wearing a ballerina costume, not "I wish mommy didn't have cancer," so if someone did create this mess of a universe, that entity was incompetent, sadistic, or both.

No omnipotent, omniscient, benevolent creature would create a universe in which any child ever had to wish something like that.

   There's absolutley nothing I can or would even try to say except that I think you're right. 

[Raineyrocks]

The King James version of the Bible is the most adulterated version, because it was written so that King James could get a divorce.

Really? 

[Jim Johnson]

The King James version of the Bible is the most adulterated version, because it was written so that King James could get a divorce.

Really?

Yes, really.  King James wanted a divorce, but under the older bible he was not allowed to divorce.  Entire the Authorized King James version... bing... divorces are now OK with God.  Plus you get a book that is now fully enforced by both the King and the new church leaders.  Their mantra then became, "This is the true word God"... backed by very severe torture if you didn't believe them.

This is also the reason why people claim the that the King James version is

[Raineyrocks]

The King James version of the Bible is the most adulterated version, because it was written so that King James could get a divorce.

Really?

Yes, really.  King James wanted a divorce, but under the older bible he was not allowed to divorce.  Entire the Authorized King James version... bing... divorces are now OK with God.  Plus you get a book that is now fully enforced by both the King and the new church leaders.  Their mantra then became, "This is the true word God"... backed by very severe torture if you didn't believe them.

This is also the reason why people claim the that the King James version is

Is what?

[Raineyrocks]

Okay, but other people have existed and taught love, peace, and non-cooperation with injustice too.  So should I worship Martin Luther King, Jr.?   I'm not being obnoxious, it's just a logical question in my mind.    

Sorry, for taking your comment out of line and suggesting that it had to do with me.

No apology necessary.

No, you shouldn't worship Dr. King. He was one in a long line of spiritual/philosophical descendants of Jesus. Many of these people believed Jesus is the divine son of God. Many scholars of history argue that for Jesus, though, the coming of the Kingdom of God was a real event that would take place in Jerusalem in the not-too-distant future. He was a devout human taking a stand against oppression at a particular time and place. For those who've seen through the BS and the brutality of Christianity to find Jesus' message of love, his teachings continue to inspire bold stands for the sake of justice.

The fact that that has continued for so many centuries surely sets Jesus apart from all who came after. That might not merit worship. In fact, having learned more about the historical Jesus, I can probably relate to Jesus the man better than Jesus the Christ.

Thanks Kevin.   

[Jim Johnson]

The King James version of the Bible is the most adulterated version, because it was written so that King James could get a divorce.

Really?

Yes, really.  King James wanted a divorce, but under the older bible he was not allowed to divorce.  Entire the Authorized King James version... bing... divorces are now OK with God.  Plus you get a book that is now fully enforced by both the King and the new church leaders.  Their mantra then became, "This is the true word God"... backed by very severe torture if you didn't believe them.

This is also the reason why people claim the that the King James version is

Is what?

This is also the reason why people continue to claim the that the King James version is the true word God.  Once a huge lie like that is started they must continue to proclaim it loudly, angrily and with a threat of violence.

[Raineyrocks]

The King James version of the Bible is the most adulterated version, because it was written so that King James could get a divorce.

Really?

Yes, really.  King James wanted a divorce, but under the older bible he was not allowed to divorce.  Entire the Authorized King James version... bing... divorces are now OK with God.  Plus you get a book that is now fully enforced by both the King and the new church leaders.  Their mantra then became, "This is the true word God"... backed by very severe torture if you didn't believe them.

This is also the reason why people claim the that the King James version is

Is what?

This is also the reason why people continue to claim the that the King James version is the true word God.  Once a huge lie like that is started they must continue to proclaim it loudly, angrily and with a threat of violence.

Oh, okay I was just asking "is what" because you didn't finish your sentence.   

[Jim Johnson]

Here is an article about how 'meat-eaters lie and commit sex crimes' based on religious ideas.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-20354669

[Raineyrocks]

Here is an article about how 'meat-eaters lie and commit sex crimes' based on religious ideas.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-20354669

Thanks, so I'm not the only one that has trouble staying on topic, huh?    I get it, religious ideas can cause some people to do crazy stuff, right?  I'm glad I'm a vegetarian!

P.S. I just got done reading the whole article and I didn't mean that I think meat eaters are scumbags just because I'm a vegetarian. 

[Jim Johnson]

Here is an article about how 'meat-eaters lie and commit sex crimes' based on religious ideas.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-20354669

Thanks, so I'm not the only one that has trouble staying on topic, huh?    I get it, religious ideas can cause some people to do crazy stuff, right?  I'm glad I'm a vegetarian!

P.S. I just got done reading the whole article and I didn't mean that I think meat eaters are scumbags just because I'm a vegetarian. 

I know it isn't because your a vegetarian, it's because others eat meat.