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Author Topic: Permit to build in Grafton?  (Read 8492 times)

Lex

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Re: Permit to build in Grafton?
« Reply #15 on: December 27, 2005, 01:10 AM NHFT »

Yay for property rights!  8)

Well, more like, yay for telling others off when they think they can say whatever they want on your property >:D
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KBCraig

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Re: Permit to build in Grafton?
« Reply #16 on: December 27, 2005, 02:28 AM NHFT »

Earlier tonight, I was reading the zoning ordinance for Berlin. Not only is Berlin the only city in the north country, it's heavily Democrat (union mill workers, etc.). And so, they have much of what you'd expect from a city council/manager/mayor form of government.

The zoning ordinance is 117 pages long, and is highly restrictive about what you can or can't do in your home, if it involves visitors or clients.

Their "sexually oriented business" zoning restriction was hilarious. Aside from the normal restrictions, they ban SOBs within 1,000 feet of city boundaries. Ummmm, well, duhhhh... the entire developed portion of Berlin is within 1,000 feet of borders with Gorham, Success, or Milan.

I hope to be working in Berlin, but I doubt we'll live there. We'd rather be in Milan, Randolph, or even Stark (which is tiny, but has no zoning). There are a couple of properties in Berlin we'd like to buy, where Mary could have a grooming shop at home; we might consider those. We still aim to homeschool John David wherever we land, but we expect a fight because we're a cash cow. Schools get a special stipend for children/students of feral gummint employees, and we don't expect them to let go of that easily.

Kevin
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Dreepa

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Re: Permit to build in Grafton?
« Reply #17 on: December 27, 2005, 08:43 AM NHFT »

Aside from the normal restrictions, they ban SOBs within 1,000 feet of city boundaries. Ummmm, well, duhhhh... the entire developed portion of Berlin is within 1,000 feet of borders with Gorham, Success, or Milan.

I had to read this twice.  I was thinking 'How can they determine if you are an SOB' :)
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president

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Re: Permit to build in Grafton?
« Reply #18 on: December 31, 2005, 03:27 PM NHFT »

Here is the number of the selectman's office
(603) 523-7700
http://townofgrafton.com

Town of Grafton
Office of the Selectmen

Fax 603-523-4026

Email-grafton_twn@endor.com
                                   
Stephen Darrow, Chairman
Frank Neufell, Selectman
Jennie Joyce, Selectman
Kelli Morton, Administrative Assistant

Please contact the Selectmen?s Office if you need/have:
 
v     Questions about Building Notifications

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president

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Re: Permit to build in Grafton?
« Reply #19 on: December 31, 2005, 03:49 PM NHFT »

The most interesting thing I see in this topic is when President has an opportunity to provide some information we can actually use, he is silent.
Who is the "we" you speak of? Do you have a turd in your pocket?

Maybe I did respond and my post was deleted. I can't figure out why my posts get deleted when they do. Have you ever deleted any of my posts Lloyd?

You also should have read Zack's posts before you deleted them, as he proablaby answered the question. You should have deleted his avatar if that was the problem, not the posts.

http://freetownproject.com/new_hampshire_town.html
Quote
We have just discovered that the Town of Grafton has something called a "BUILDING NOTIFICATION". Seems the Selectmen require you to ask them like they're your mommy if you want to build on your own Private Property. This somewhat negates John Babiarz's belief that, since there is no such thing as a "Certificate of Occupancy", the Town of Grafton respects Private Property Rights.
We'll just have to work around that and keep taking names. So far it doesn't seem to be abused, but of course that's how ALL Oppression starts! It may be that it is not a matter of PERMISSION, but if not then why require it at all? The fact is that the Selectmen "REVIEW" the Notifications, and that's scary.

I think it may have more to do with the planning board than the selectmen.

Grafton does not have a zoning board, but it does have a planning board and some zoning regulations, like 2 acre min lot size and only one permanent living structure per lot. Even if they get voted out, it takes 2 years for the zoning regulations to go away.

Also, at the 2005 deliberative session John Babiarz was asked to talk about the warrant article to get rid of the planning board. He said he feared a Carl Dregga situation is developing.
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president

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Re: Permit to build in Grafton?
« Reply #20 on: December 31, 2005, 04:02 PM NHFT »

Oh, you can also check with Tim Condon, as he just bought some property in Grafton.

http://fl.rlc.org/

Quote
State e-newsletter, Third Quarter, 2005

...

9. Condon stakes claim in the Free State

Florida RLCer Tim Condon, currently of Tampa and an active RLC activist in both Florida and New Hampshire, has just closed on a piece of property in Grafton, NH. The move is part of his commitment to the Free State Project, an organized libertarian migration to New Hampshire. Tim wants you as a neighbor. For more info, see www.freestateproject.org.
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zackbass

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Re: Permit to build in Grafton?
« Reply #21 on: December 31, 2005, 04:42 PM NHFT »



http://freetownproject.com/new_hampshire_town.html
Quote
  (quote from Zack):
We have just discovered that the Town of Grafton has something called a "BUILDING NOTIFICATION". Seems the Selectmen require you to ask them like they're your mommy if you want to build on your own Private Property. This somewhat negates John Babiarz's belief that, since there is no such thing as a "Certificate of Occupancy", the Town of Grafton respects Private Property Rights.
We'll just have to work around that and keep taking names. So far it doesn't seem to be abused, but of course that's how ALL Oppression starts! It may be that it is not a matter of PERMISSION, but if not then why require it at all? The fact is that the Selectmen "REVIEW" the Notifications, and that's scary.

I think it may have more to do with the planning board than the selectmen.


Nope, read up on how Grafton Government works, the BOARD OF SELECTMEN reviews each Building Notification, and they feel that you can't Build unless they are persuaded to "Sign" it.
Dig this:
http://www.freetownproject.com/efocus29.html
Quote
Building Notification ? Michael and Karen Selinga, Map 3, Lot 1008, Brock Hill Road:  A building notification for an addition to an existing building was signed by the Board for Michael and Karen Selinga.
   ... and:
Quote
Building Notification:  Discussion ensued that a new property owner on Millbrook has begun construction of an addition without a building notification being approved by the Selectboard.  There was also a question of proper septage disposal.  Bonnie will send a letter requesting information on both.
   ... and:
Quote
Building Notification ? Merle Kenyon, Island Road, Map 16, Lot 0089, Russell Dubuc, Main Street, Map 17, Lot 0233:  The Board reviewed and signed a request from Merle Kenyon, Island Road and one for Russell Dubuc, Main Street.  Bonnie asked the Board if there was a fee for Dubuc for the shed.  The Board said that there were no fees for anything that did not constitute living space.  The Board instructed Bonnie to send a letter to Mr. Dubuc instructing him that he needs to request driveway construction permission from the State of New Hampshire as his property is on Route 4.
   ... and:
Quote
Michele Fairbrothers ? Building Notification ? Driveway Permit:  The Board reviewed 3 letters sent to Michele Fairbrothers, Wild Meadow Road; (1) building notification permits required by the Town of Grafton, (2) the need for a Town approved driveway and (3) property dispute.  The Board noted that Ms. Fairbrothers has failed to respond to any of the letters and that there are complaints about the number of mobile homes on the property, the wires and water lines running across the road, and obstructions in the road/town right-of-way, making unsafe travel along the road.  Ms. Fairbrothers was sent a letter, at the direction of New England Municipal Consultants, Ltd, suggesting she seek legal opinion regarding the property dispute, the driveway issue will be turned over to the Grafton Planning Board and the Selectmen will send a certified letter to Ms. Fairbrothers informing her that she has until June 15th to comply with Town regulations, clean up the property and remove things from the Town right-of-way.



Quote
Grafton does not have a zoning board, but it does have a planning board and some zoning regulations, like 2 acre min lot size and only one permanent living structure per lot.

A 2-acre lot minimum is NOT ZONING.  It doesn't regulate LAND USE, it regulates only SUBDIVIDING, which is entirely within the legal control of a Planning Board.

If they try to tell you what you may build on you lot, though, that IS Zoning and will be struck down in Court.  There are plenty of precedents in New Hampshire Law.  If they want to do that they have to get ZONING voted in - and they have always failed in every attempt!

Quote
Even if they get voted out, it takes 2 years for the zoning regulations to go away.

I don't know about that, but since there would then be no one to administer or enforce it....

Quote
Also, at the 2005 deliberative session John Babiarz was asked to talk about the warrant article to get rid of the planning board. He said he feared a Carl Dregga situation is developing.

Why would he use the word "fear"?  Must have turned Pussy.

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Kat Kanning

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Re: Permit to build in Grafton?
« Reply #22 on: December 31, 2005, 05:11 PM NHFT »

Why would he use the word "fear"?  Must have turned Pussy.

You sound like you view "pussy" as a bad thing.

When did our presidente die?
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Lloyd Danforth

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Re: Permit to build in Grafton?
« Reply #23 on: December 31, 2005, 06:59 PM NHFT »


Maybe I did respond and my post was deleted. I can't figure out why my posts get deleted when they do. Have you ever deleted any of my posts Lloyd?
  No
Quote
You also should have read Zack's posts before you deleted them, as he proablaby answered the question.

Sorry, I just assumed they concerned Pederastry
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zackbass

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Re: Permit to build in Grafton?
« Reply #24 on: January 01, 2006, 02:17 AM NHFT »




You also should have read Zack's posts before you deleted them, as he proablaby answered the question.

Sorry, I just assumed they concerned Pederastry


And why the fuck would you assume something like that?  And why the fuck would you stop assuming it when I changed the avatar?  And what the fuck is pederasty anyhow?  Oh wait, here it is on Dictionary.com:

Quote
pederasty
n : sexual relations between a man and a boy (usually anal intercourse with the boy as a passive partner) [syn: paederasty]

Did your creepy imagination see my avatar depicting a boy taking it in the ass?  The picture came right out of National Lampoon.  Do you think that National Lampoon would dare to publish such a thing?



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KBCraig

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Re: Permit to build in Grafton?
« Reply #25 on: January 01, 2006, 04:54 AM NHFT »

Did your creepy imagination see my avatar depicting a boy taking it in the ass?

I just figured you had a Smurf fixation. "Don't ask, don't tell."

Kevin
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Russell Kanning

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Re: Permit to build in Grafton?
« Reply #26 on: January 01, 2006, 01:31 PM NHFT »

If I was building a house in Grafton I would follow the "don't ask don't tell" policy with anyone but my friends and neighbors. :)
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AlanM

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Re: Permit to build in Grafton?
« Reply #27 on: January 01, 2006, 01:41 PM NHFT »

I did a lot of work on a friends house a few years back. Turned carriage house into a studio, finished off a workroom, added a large dormer. All with no permits or permission.  :)
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president

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Re: Permit to build in Grafton?
« Reply #28 on: January 01, 2006, 02:21 PM NHFT »



http://freetownproject.com/new_hampshire_town.html
Quote
  (quote from Zack):
We have just discovered that the Town of Grafton has something called a "BUILDING NOTIFICATION". Seems the Selectmen require you to ask them like they're your mommy if you want to build on your own Private Property. This somewhat negates John Babiarz's belief that, since there is no such thing as a "Certificate of Occupancy", the Town of Grafton respects Private Property Rights.
We'll just have to work around that and keep taking names. So far it doesn't seem to be abused, but of course that's how ALL Oppression starts! It may be that it is not a matter of PERMISSION, but if not then why require it at all? The fact is that the Selectmen "REVIEW" the Notifications, and that's scary.

I think it may have more to do with the planning board than the selectmen.


Nope, read up on how Grafton Government works, the BOARD OF SELECTMEN reviews each Building Notification, and they feel that you can't Build unless they are persuaded to "Sign" it.
I think the building notication power comes from the planning board, and is delegated to the selectmen. Let's look at the RSAs

http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/html/indexes/674.html

http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/html/LXIV/674/674-1.htm
674:1 Duties of the Planning Board
Quote
    V. The planning board may, from time to time, recommend to the local legislative body amendments of the zoning ordinance or zoning map or additions thereto.

http://199.192.8.10/rsa/html/LXIV/674/674-36.htm
Quote
674:36 Subdivision Regulations.
  I. Before the planning board exercises its powers under RSA 674:35, the planning board shall adopt subdivision regulations according to the procedures required by RSA 675:6.
    II. The subdivision regulations which the planning board adopts may:
...
       (h) Require that the land indicated on plats submitted to the planning board shall be of such character that it can be used for building purposes without danger to health;
      (i) Prescribe minimum areas of lots so as to assure conformance with local zoning ordinances and to assure such additional areas as may be needed for each lot for on-site sanitary facilities;
...


http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/html/LXIV/674/674-43.htm
Quote
674:43 Power to Review Site Plans.
    I. A municipality, having adopted a zoning ordinance as provided in RSA 674:16, and where the planning board has adopted subdivision regulations as provided in RSA 674:36, may by ordinance or resolution further authorize the planning board to require preliminary review of site plans and to review and approve or disapprove site plans for the development or change or expansion of use of tracts for nonresidential uses or for multi-family dwelling units, which are defined as any structures containing more than 2 dwelling units, whether or not such development includes a subdivision or resubdivision of the site.

http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/html/LXIV/674/674-35.htm
Quote
674:35 Power to Regulate Subdivisions.
    I. A municipality may by ordinance or resolution authorize the planning board to require preliminary review of subdivisions, and to approve or disapprove, in its discretion, plats, and to approve or disapprove plans showing the extent to which and the manner in which streets within subdivisions shall be graded and improved and to which streets water, sewer, and other utility mains, piping, connections or other facilities within subdivisions shall be installed.
    II. The planning board of a municipality shall have the authority to regulate the subdivision of land under the enactment procedures of RSA 675:6. The ordinance or resolution which authorizes the planning board to regulate the subdivision of land shall make it the duty of the city clerk, town clerk, clerk of district commissioners or other appropriate recording official to file with the register of deeds of the county in which the municipality is located a certificate of notice showing that the planning board has been so authorized, giving the date of such authorization.
    III. The planning board shall not limit the number of building permits that may be issued except in accordance with an innovative land use control ordinance addressing timing incentives and phased development under RSA 674:21 and adopted under RSA 674:16; or an ordinance to regulate and control the timing of development, adopted under RSA 674:22; or an ordinance to regulate growth via interim regulation, adopted under RSA 674:23. This paragraph shall not be construed to limit the planning board's authority to deny a subdivision application on the basis that it is scattered or premature.


Quote
Dig this:
http://www.freetownproject.com/efocus29.html
Sounds to me like the planning board delegated athority for building notifiction aproval to the selectmen. It is my understanding that if the planning board goes away, the building notification would also go away, and any zoning ordances would also go away.


Quote
Quote
Grafton does not have a zoning board, but it does have a planning board and some zoning regulations, like 2 acre min lot size and only one permanent living structure per lot.

A 2-acre lot minimum is NOT ZONING.  It doesn't regulate LAND USE, it regulates only SUBDIVIDING, which is entirely within the legal control of a Planning Board.

If they try to tell you what you may build on you lot, though, that IS Zoning and will be struck down in Court.  There are plenty of precedents in New Hampshire Law.  If they want to do that they have to get ZONING voted in - and they have always failed in every attempt!

Umm, I was wrong. It is not a zoning regulation. Grafton has ZONING ORDINANCES. And they got voted in over 20 years ago.

http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/html/LXIV/674/674-16.htm
Quote
Zoning
Section 674:16
    674:16 Grant of Power.
    I. For the purpose of promoting the health, safety, or the general welfare of the community, the local legislative body of any city, town, or county in which there are located unincorporated towns or unorganized places is authorized to adopt or amend a zoning ordinance under the ordinance enactment procedures of RSA 675:2-5. The zoning ordinance shall be designed to regulate and restrict:
       (a) The height, number of stories and size of buildings and other structures;
       (b) Lot sizes, the percentage of a lot that may be occupied, and the size of yards, courts and other open spaces;
       (c) The density of population in the municipality; and
       (d) The location and use of buildings, structures and land used for business, industrial, residential, or other purposes.

Quote
Quote
Even if they get voted out, it takes 2 years for the zoning regulations to go away.

I don't know about that, but since there would then be no one to administer or enforce it....
That is just what I have been told. I don't remember if it was written into the Grafton zoning ordinances, or it is a state thing. But if the zoning board gets voted out, it will take two years for the zoning ordnaces to go away.

Quote
Quote
Also, at the 2005 deliberative session John Babiarz was asked to talk about the warrant article to get rid of the planning board. He said he feared a Carl Dregga situation is developing.

Why would he use the word "fear"?  Must have turned Pussy.
I don't know if he used the word "fear". I meant he explained it as something he thought may happen, and he didn't want it to. I didn't mean he said he was ascared. I think he was being a politician.
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zackbass

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Re: Permit to build in Grafton?
« Reply #29 on: January 01, 2006, 02:40 PM NHFT »




A 2-acre lot minimum is NOT ZONING.  It doesn't regulate LAND USE, it regulates only SUBDIVIDING, which is entirely within the legal control of a Planning Board.

If they try to tell you what you may build on you lot, though, that IS Zoning and will be struck down in Court.  There are plenty of precedents in New Hampshire Law.  If they want to do that they have to get ZONING voted in - and they have always failed in every attempt!


Umm, I was wrong. It is not a zoning regulation. Grafton has ZONING ORDINANCES. And they got voted in over 20 years ago.

http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/html/LXIV/674/674-16.htm
Quote
Zoning
Section 674:16
    674:16 Grant of Power.
    I. For the purpose of promoting the health, safety, or the general welfare of the community, the local legislative body of any city, town, or county in which there are located unincorporated towns or unorganized places is authorized to adopt or amend a zoning ordinance under the ordinance enactment procedures of RSA 675:2-5. The zoning ordinance shall be designed to regulate and restrict:
       (a) The height, number of stories and size of buildings and other structures;
       (b) Lot sizes, the percentage of a lot that may be occupied, and the size of yards, courts and other open spaces;
       (c) The density of population in the municipality; and
       (d) The location and use of buildings, structures and land used for business, industrial, residential, or other purposes.


WRONG!!!
Where were you in March?  The BAD PEOPLE of the Town of Grafton attempted to adopt a ZONING ORDINANCE in response to my challenge a few months before (adopt Zoning if you don't want us to take charge of the Town Government), and the GOOD PEOPLE of the Town of Grafton voted it down!

All you have done here is quote the Statute (RSA) that gives the Town the authority to enact Zoning Ordinances, and in fact this proves my point, since it says that it is a ZONING ORDINANCE - IF ENACTED - that allows a Zoning Board to regulate and restrict what may be built on the land after it is SubDivided.  Since (despite what you claim) the Town of Grafton has NOT adopted any Zoning Ordinance that restricts what may be built on a lot, the Town of Grafton Board of Selectmen has no authority whatsoever to say how many structures may be built on a Lot, or how many people may live on that Lot.

Even when a Zoning Ordinance has been adopted (like the minimal one that was in effect in Unity until 2005, ask Mary Gere), if it does not specifically give the Town the right to restrict a certain aspect of Building on Lots, it does not have that authority until the Zoning Ordinance is AMENDED - by a Vote of the Townspeople!!!  And we know that the Good People of Grafton are NOT going to approve any such thing.

http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/html/LXIV/675/675-3.htm
Quote
675:3 Method of Enactment in Certain Towns and Village Districts. ?
I. Any town not operating under the town council form of government, or any village district which is specifically authorized by law to enact a zoning ordinance, shall establish and amend a zoning ordinance, historic district ordinance, or building code upon the affirmative vote by ballot of a majority of the legal voters present and voting on the day of the meeting, as provided in paragraph VII. Any proposed zoning ordinance, as submitted by a planning board or any amendment to an existing zoning ordinance as proposed by a planning board, board of selectmen or village district commission shall be submitted to the voters of a town or village district in the manner prescribed in this section.

« Last Edit: January 01, 2006, 02:56 PM NHFT by zackbass »
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