Who was Carl Drega?

[Tom Sawyer]

Tough shit. Drega chose where he wanted to live, and unless you're going to buy an island and live by yourself, there will always be laws you disagree with.? Wasn't he free to run for office and try to change the laws, or to move to a place that better suited him?

I'm sure that he had started his life there way before the bureaucrats came up with all the rules and regulations that eventually caused him to snap. They invaded him and he faught back.

If Mr. Drega had such solid ties to the town as you claim, it seems like he'd be in a good position to discuss his concerns with his neighbors. It's a town of around 800 people, and if it's anything like most places 780 of them don't give a shit about what goes on beyond their yard. He could run for office, and work to change the zoning. He could make a special "White Trash Zone" in his neighborhood, allowing him to adorn his home with tarpaper, tinfoil, or whatever else he wanted. Or, he could convince others that zoning was unethical, and help to do away with the process altogether. Unfortunately, he was your basic douche and chose to just murder people instead.

This "caused him to snap" stuff is such a cop-out. He was a man of free will, and those murders are his fault and his alone.

Sounds like you might be ok with ganging up against people that have less money than you think is appropriate. He had his piece of paradise right on the river, but he didn't have the right kind of house for your liking. The slur of "White Trash Zone" is exactly the kind of thing "Yuppies" do to justify driving out folks with less money. Perhaps we'll run into you on the local zoning board smugly telling people what color shutters are approved for their home.

Killing people is an awful choice to make. However, ganging up on your neighbor under the color of law is probably as bad.

I've been in the position of busybody neighbors thinking they have the right to have veto power over my choices on my land.

[AlanM]

Mark:

If Mr. Drega had such solid ties to the town as you claim, it seems like he'd be in a good position to discuss his concerns with his neighbors. It's a town of around 800 people, and if it's anything like most places 780 of them don't give a shit about what goes on beyond their yard. He could run for office, and work to change the zoning. He could make a special "White Trash Zone" in his neighborhood, allowing him to adorn his home with tarpaper, tinfoil, or whatever else he wanted. Or, he could convince others that zoning was unethical, and help to do away with the process altogether. Unfortunately, he was your basic douche and chose to just murder people instead.

What gives other people the right to tell us what to do with our property and our lives? Just because they hold up something on a piece of paper is no moral justification.
Democracy is merely mob rule. It is the big lie that has been rammed down our throats. Some people have decided to not take it anymore.

[Mark]

Tough shit. Drega chose where he wanted to live, and unless you're going to buy an island and live by yourself, there will always be laws you disagree with.  Wasn't he free to run for office and try to change the laws, or to move to a place that better suited him?

I'm sure that he had started his life there way before the bureaucrats came up with all the rules and regulations that eventually caused him to snap. They invaded him and he faught back.

If Mr. Drega had such solid ties to the town as you claim, it seems like he'd be in a good position to discuss his concerns with his neighbors. It's a town of around 800 people, and if it's anything like most places 780 of them don't give a shit about what goes on beyond their yard. He could run for office, and work to change the zoning. He could make a special "White Trash Zone" in his neighborhood, allowing him to adorn his home with tarpaper, tinfoil, or whatever else he wanted. Or, he could convince others that zoning was unethical, and help to do away with the process altogether. Unfortunately, he was your basic douche and chose to just murder people instead.

This "caused him to snap" stuff is such a cop-out. He was a man of free will, and those murders are his fault and his alone.

Sounds like you might be ok with ganging up against people that have less money than you think is appropriate. He had his piece of paradise right on the river, but he didn't have the right kind of house for your liking. The slur of "White Trash Zone" is exactly the kind of thing "Yuppies" do to justify driving out folks with less money. Perhaps we'll run into you on the local zoning board smugly telling people what color shutters are approved for their home.

Killing people is an awful choice to make. However, ganging up on your neighbor under the color of law is probably as bad.

I've been in the position of busybody neighbors thinking they have the right to have veto power over my choices on my land.

Roger, maybe "White Trash Zone" was a poor choice of words. It's a phrase I occasionally use when discussing the condition of my own yard with my wife.  I truly care as much about the piss I'm about to take as I do with how much money you make or what color shutters (if any) you choose to have on your house.

Equating zoning ordinances with murder is a nice touch, though. When you ran into your busybody neighbors, how did you kill them?

[Lex]

Equating zoning ordinances with murder is a nice touch, though. When you ran into your busybody neighbors, how did you kill them?

With his bare hands! 

[Russell Kanning]

This "pushed beyond the limits" talk is horseshit. I haven't surrendered my morality to any government, and I don't know why we'd expect any less of Drega. If you want a foolproof way to ensure that people in your new (or soon to be new) state think you're crazy, go ahead and take up this guy's cause. He's no martyr. He's a murderer, plain and simple.

Maybe we should have a Carl Drega award on the underground for whoever has been "pushed beyond their limit."
Mark .... you seem to be a candidate since you saw this topic and went off on all of us.
Didn't this thread start because someone was asking who this Drega guy was anyway.
This seems like a good topic to discuss.

Was the government right in its' actions towards Drega?
Was Drega justified in shooting those people?
What would have been the best response by him?

It seems we have quite a difference in opinion on each of those questions and more. Seems like a good topic for discussion on this forum.

[Russell Kanning]

If you want a foolproof way to ensure that people in your new (or soon to be new) state think you're crazy, go ahead and take up this guy's cause. He's no martyr. He's a murderer, plain and simple.

Who has called him a martyr?

[Russell Kanning]

Quoting Dirty (Clintwood) Harry.....A Good Man Knows His Limitations. 

I thought it was "a man's got to know his limitations". Which way is it? Which one is better?

You gotta ask yourself ......

[Russell Kanning]

Just seems like an odd choice of a hero to me.

I don't see how eukreign is making him a hero.

[Russell Kanning]

You can't deny what happened. It probably wasn't the best way for Drega to handle the situation but that's what happened. I'm not implying that what he did was wrong or right, he paid the price for what he did and that's all there is to it.

What should he have done?

[Lex]

You can't deny what happened. It probably wasn't the best way for Drega to handle the situation but that's what happened. I'm not implying that what he did was wrong or right, he paid the price for what he did and that's all there is to it.

What should he have done?

Probably tried to avoid killing people. The Ends Don't Justify the Means. In the long run killing anyone doesn't help liberty, although even that is arguable.

To be completely honest though there probably wasn't much else he could have done. Once he killed those two cops his life was basically over so he figured he'd get some revenge. He was probably panicked and his animal like survival instincts kicked in so it's not surprising what he did. In his mind anyone who put him in that state of fear was his enemy and he went around killing them to save himself. When you know that your life is pretty much over I don't think there are any rational thoughts at that point, just instinct. Adrenalin is a very powerful drug and can cause people do do all sorts of things that they never thought they could before.

In Dregas case though I'm sure he's thought about killing people way before he actually did it so I don't really know what his state of mind was like when he went on his hunt. He could have been perfectly calm or he could have been completely out of his mind. We'll never know.

Now, what would I do if I was in a similar situation? I dono, unlike Drega I have a family to take care of so my threshold is probably much higher then Dregas. But every human being has his or her limits. Just don't try to find out what that limit is and everything will be alright.

[Mark]

This "pushed beyond the limits" talk is horseshit. I haven't surrendered my morality to any government, and I don't know why we'd expect any less of Drega. If you want a foolproof way to ensure that people in your new (or soon to be new) state think you're crazy, go ahead and take up this guy's cause. He's no martyr. He's a murderer, plain and simple.

Maybe we should have a Carl Drega award on the underground for whoever has been "pushed beyond their limit."
Mark .... you seem to be a candidate since you saw this topic and went off on all of us.
Didn't this thread start because someone was asking who this Drega guy was anyway.
This seems like a good topic to discuss.

Was the government right in its' actions towards Drega?
Was Drega justified in shooting those people?
What would have been the best response by him?

It seems we have quite a difference in opinion on each of those questions and more. Seems like a good topic for discussion on this forum.

I'll try to do all of this in one post...

-I agree that it's a good topic for discussion, which is why I was discussing it. I've simply offered a counterpoint to the line of reasoning that places any blame for these four murders and two attempted murders at anyone's feet but Drega's. I'm a little surprised at how unpopular this view is.
-As for who called him a martyr, read the introductory post. It certainly paints him that way.
-Regarding whether eukreign is making him a hero, he states on the first page of this thread (and is similarly quoted from a previous thread) that Drega is his hero. That's fine -- eukreign is certainly entitled to admire whoever he wishes, just as I'm entitled to be repulsed by those same folks.

[Russell Kanning]

Probably tried to avoid killing people. The Ends Don't Justify the Means. In the long run killing anyone doesn't help liberty, although even that is arguable.

Should we do things because it may help liberty?

[Russell Kanning]

-As for who called him a martyr, read the introductory post. It certainly paints him that way.

I think those are Vin's words.

[Mark]

-As for who called him a martyr, read the introductory post. It certainly paints him that way.

I think those are Vin's words.

I know. I still disagree with them, and with the idea that what this guy did was justifiable in any way. Vin's words were posted here, and are part of the discussion, no?

[Russell Kanning]

It just might not be Eukreigns thoughts also.

It looks like Vin is ready to have a violent revolution ........ oh wait .... he is just a writer and likes to talk about liberty .... never mind.