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Author Topic: Are conspiracy kooks hurting the liberty movement?  (Read 21945 times)

Russell Kanning

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Re: Are conspiracy kooks hurting the liberty movement?
« Reply #540 on: April 08, 2017, 02:42 PM NHFT »

hey I think Johnson is talking about me :)

it is funny how I have gone from never looking at these crazy conspiracy theories to believing most of them :)

I am stuck on this flat earth one .... because it looks flat and nasa seems to fake everything. I can't see how I could go back on this one.
maybe some other ones hmm maybe

It is funny in this community of outside the system nutters that I have joined ..... most of them that are not Christians can't seem to figure out why these bad guys would do these elaborate centuries old lies. For me it is making sense that we have been tricked for about 6000 years. It just takes different forms, or cycles through.

If you guys don't mind talking about them every once in a while or when I visit you, that would be nice. Otherwise we can talk about other stuff. I might just want to bring up new levels of deception every once in a while. :)
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Jim Johnson

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Re: Are conspiracy kooks hurting the liberty movement?
« Reply #541 on: April 08, 2017, 06:04 PM NHFT »

I have never heard Russell say that he is a better Christian than anyone else.

I will concede that he is a betterChristian than me.

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KBCraig

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Re: Are conspiracy kooks hurting the liberty movement?
« Reply #542 on: April 08, 2017, 07:38 PM NHFT »

I don't know, but if he takes the position of humility and points out that he doesn't know it all, you probably shouldn't call it a pompous argument.

'I'm doing (X) which makes me a better Christian than you' is not a position of humility.

...and it definitely qualifies as pompous.

If you can point out where I did that, I'd appreciate it. I'd like to correct it.
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Jim Johnson

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Re: Are conspiracy kooks hurting the liberty movement?
« Reply #543 on: April 08, 2017, 08:32 PM NHFT »

I don't know, but if he takes the position of humility and points out that he doesn't know it all, you probably shouldn't call it a pompous argument.

'I'm doing (X) which makes me a better Christian than you' is not a position of humility.

...and it definitely qualifies as pompous.

If you can point out where I did that, I'd appreciate it. I'd like to correct it.

I have never found you to be pompous.

My post stems from Reply #530 on: April 04, 2017, 07:47 PM NHFT that says...
"There is evidence that demands a verdict, and on the other hand there is the attitude that "if what I believe can't be proven, then believing fervently in nonsense must mean I have more faith!"

I was reacting to that statement.

In hindsight can see why you thought I did.

For what it's worth, I apologize.
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Tom Sawyer

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Re: Are conspiracy kooks hurting the liberty movement?
« Reply #544 on: April 08, 2017, 10:14 PM NHFT »



I am stuck on this flat earth one .... because it looks flat and nasa seems to fake everything. I can't see how I could go back on this one.
maybe some other ones hmm maybe.

From what I have looked into on this subject.... Most of the sincere people that believe the earth to be flat seemed to start at the not trusting NASA point.

First off long before NASA existed people had figured out the earth wasn't flat. Currently NASA is not the only source of information or knowledge.

Many of the arguments I see presented have the math wrong and when shown that the math is wrong they just keep repeating the same flawed numbers. Are they trolls? Or willfully ignorant?

Many of the arguments revolve around not having seen the evidence for themselves, but then they take at face value the arguments of the flat earth promoters.

Once invested in these ideas it becomes harder and harder psychologically to face the fact that the person has gone down the wrong path. In order to maintain/protect the position more and more outlandish explanations become accepted to fit the model. For example the argument to explain the earth's shadow on the moon was some here to fore unknown electromagnetic field disturbance.

Just like you told me once that you wouldn't play with a Ouji board because it might open you to dark forces. I think these theories open you up to people's errors, false beliefs or worse their manipulations.

Big, relatively easily refuted, lies is not the way the government lies. They do it with more subtle spin.

Many different fields of knowledge would have to be wrong for this to be true. Navigators from two hundred years ago had to understand these principles to accurately find their way across oceans. How come we don't see the Southern Cross in the Northern Hemisphere? The angle of these celestial bodies change depending on your latitude.

The list goes on and on.

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blackie

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Re: Are conspiracy kooks hurting the liberty movement?
« Reply #545 on: April 09, 2017, 01:48 PM NHFT »

it is funny how I have gone from never looking at these crazy conspiracy theories to believing most of them
Do you believe in any of the jewish conspiracy theories?

What do you think about The Protocols of the Elders of Zion?

What about "the jews killed jesus" thing?
https://theshalomcenter.org/content/talmud-death-jesus
Quote
Raising the issue is an article by Steven Bayme, the American Jewish Committee national director of Contemporary Jewish Life, which declares that Jews must face up to the fact that the Talmudic narrative clearly demonstrate ... fourth century rabbinic willingness to take responsibility for the execution of Jesus.

Jewish apologetics that could not have done it because of Roman sovereignty ring hollow when one examines the Talmudic account,Bayme said.

He contends that Jewish interfaith representatives are not being honest in dialogue if they ignore the explicit Talmudic references to Jesus.

His article was posted on the AJCommittee Web site last week, then removed after a Jewish Week reporter inquiry.

Ken Bandler, a spokesman for the AJCommittee, said the article was taken down to void confusion over whether it represented the organization official position. AJCommittee officials now refer to the article as an internal document.

Some Jewish scholars and interfaith officials were upset with the article, either questioning Bayme scholarship or his timing saying this was a particularly delicate time to call attention to Jews role in Jesus death, or both.

But Bayme was unswayed. Citing the continuing controversy over Gibson he Passion, which has reignited concern over Christianity ancient charge against Jews as christ killers, he wrote that it is also important hat Jews confront their own tradition and ask how Jewish sources treated the Jesus narrative.

Bayme cites a passage from the Talmud, Sanhedrin 43a, which relates the fate of a man called Jesus who is hanged on the eve of Passover for practicing sorcery and leading the people of Israel astray.

When no one comes forward to defend the accused sorcerer during a 40-day reprieve, Jewish authorities put him to death, despite Jesus connections with the government. The Talmud cites this incident during a discussion of due process and capital punishment in Jewish law.

Bayme acknowledges that that the passage was written by Talmudic scholars in Babylon, who lived about 400 years after Jesus.
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Russell Kanning

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Re: Are conspiracy kooks hurting the liberty movement?
« Reply #546 on: April 09, 2017, 09:15 PM NHFT »

I agree with a bunch of your post Tom Sawyer.
But I have not noticed myself or too many people wanting to stay with the Flat Earth stuff because they have started down that path. I find almost everyone wishes they could just stay in the matrix and un see what they have seen. :)
It does help to think that NASA are deceivers :)

As far as I can tell. I think you can navigate oceans with a geocentric model and people have.
One interesting story is that when Captain Cook was going around Antarctica their charts would be off by around 29 miles per day. It seems that the maps get off the farther South you go, but spot in when you go North.


The North centric part of Flat Earth theory is very satisfying to me. I might cling to it just for that. :)

I have found the flat earth math to come out right on the lack of curvature. You probably are talking about something else.
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Russell Kanning

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Re: Are conspiracy kooks hurting the liberty movement?
« Reply #547 on: April 09, 2017, 09:21 PM NHFT »

I believe many conspiracy theories that include Jews and those that call themselves Jews.

I haven't looked into that one lately.

I thought most Jews knew that the Jewish leadership of the day killed Jesus. I thought most thought it was the right thing to do.
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Russell Kanning

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Re: Are conspiracy kooks hurting the liberty movement?
« Reply #548 on: April 09, 2017, 09:50 PM NHFT »

This lady makes many Flat Earth songs

https://youtu.be/bJ5HJiDp-lc

they are fun
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KBCraig

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Re: Are conspiracy kooks hurting the liberty movement?
« Reply #549 on: April 09, 2017, 11:32 PM NHFT »

I don't know, but if he takes the position of humility and points out that he doesn't know it all, you probably shouldn't call it a pompous argument.

'I'm doing (X) which makes me a better Christian than you' is not a position of humility.

...and it definitely qualifies as pompous.

If you can point out where I did that, I'd appreciate it. I'd like to correct it.

I have never found you to be pompous.

My post stems from Reply #530 on: April 04, 2017, 07:47 PM NHFT that says...
"There is evidence that demands a verdict, and on the other hand there is the attitude that "if what I believe can't be proven, then believing fervently in nonsense must mean I have more faith!"

I was reacting to that statement.

In hindsight can see why you thought I did.

For what it's worth, I apologize.

Thank you, and I apologize for not being clear enough, so that my intent could be mistaken.

I was really thinking of "conspiracy kooks" in the thread title, more than any particular religious beliefs. The two can be easily confused, given the religious fervor with which some people insist that lack of evidence is proof that the opposite is true.
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Tom Sawyer

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Re: Are conspiracy kooks hurting the liberty movement?
« Reply #550 on: April 10, 2017, 09:42 AM NHFT »

Ad hoc arguments, explanations that address one aspect but don't fit into a larger set of observations.

Inductive reasoning. Only considering things that support your initial hypothesis.

Millions of people involved in keeping a secret and/or actively perpatrating an elaborate hoax.

Best, most balanced, video I've found on the subject.
Is the earth Flat?
VSauce
https://youtu.be/VNqNnUJVcVs
 
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Russell Kanning

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Re: Are conspiracy kooks hurting the liberty movement?
« Reply #551 on: April 11, 2017, 12:43 AM NHFT »

his crazy tipped elevator
he assumes he knows how gravity works Einstein said he didn't
he assumes flat earth has to be thin
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Free libertarian

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Re: Are conspiracy kooks hurting the liberty movement?
« Reply #552 on: April 11, 2017, 08:50 AM NHFT »

 I've been enjoying following along on the flat earth back and forth and have a question.

 If the earth is flat, what does the underside look like and what holds it together?  Does it have an atmosphere?
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Russell Kanning

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Re: Are conspiracy kooks hurting the liberty movement?
« Reply #553 on: April 11, 2017, 10:45 AM NHFT »

I think flat earthers would have many different ideas about that.

flat earth as a dielectric plane is where I am leaning for why up is up and heavy stuff goes down.
this idea explains the twisting of the air, how the sun and moon are lit, tides, magnetic field lines, and other things
many good ideas from the electric universe theory people (most are not flat earthers)
http://www.electricuniverse.info/Introduction



https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cj0gaHNVAAEHUFP.jpg
http://www.arl.army.mil/arlreports/2001/ARL-TR-2352.pdf


this I disagree with (http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=Gravity)

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Russell Kanning

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Re: Are conspiracy kooks hurting the liberty movement?
« Reply #554 on: April 11, 2017, 10:58 AM NHFT »

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_declination
I don't think these maps make a lot of sense on a globe. I think there is something else going on.

These tide maps don't make sense to me either.

http://www6.cityu.edu.hk/see_mer/images/amphidromic.gif
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