More lack of discernment in the Keene movement

[Tom Sawyer]

Jason Talley withdrew being a blogger at Freekeene because of Ian's support of FTL's Cantwell. The disruptions at the KAC where, as we've seen here before, because nothing makes the violence promoters angrier than "Pacifists". The angry right libertarian, blamed Talley for calling in the JTTF which he also said ultimately led to Rich Paul's arrest. I bet they came into the situation because of the NYers angry, violent rhetoric. So heads up to people that don't want to be part of that whole thing. 

FTLs Cantwell expressed it was his goal to run off Garret and people like him, meaning peaceful, left leaning libertarians. Ian said that the "edgy one" had brought in a larger following than he had seen in a long time, thus Ian supported him. Ironcally one of the people at least, Josie Wales, is now publicly condemning FTLs Cantwell.

One of the goals is to reach new audiences, such as the Men's Rights movement. The problem lays in if angry rhetoric is used to aggitate people that already have a grudge, ugly behavior is the likely result.

Ian is right that I am on the outside looking in. And like many others, I have been dissuaded from participating by what I see. Although I have had many conversations with principles directly involved.

One of the best "scenes" we experienced were parties in Marlboro, that house is being sold, that activist is gone. I think it is productive to give feedback. It is productive to commiserate what has been lost and find out that many others feel similar.

As for productivity, I'll get back to the work I'm doing for a national level advocacy group. Later on I'll be back on here discussing what others seem like they want to talk about.

[Tom Sawyer]

How big is that bias?

Words suck.  They suck all the more because they're such an amazingly useful tool, and we can learn so much from them.  It traps people in a world of words and makes seeing what is beyond words all the more difficult.

on the first.
And ditto on the second. These days I am beginning to refer to myself as a Subjectivist. The subjective parts of life are some of the best... it is also why as you say "Words suck." Because it depends on the interpretation of the reader. Many words meanings have been twisted to the point you can't even use them anymore, without being misunderstood.

[Becky Thatcher]

http://knappster.blogspot.com/2015/02/celebritarian-pathos-curious-case-of.html

Another possibility is that he's a graduate student in gender studies at City University of New York, working undercover to collect data for his doctoral thesis (and possible Salon book of the month contender): "Gullible is Written on the Ceiling: How to Build a Cult Following of White Cisgender Male Libertarians and Get Them to Believe Anything."
Read more at http://knappster.blogspot.com/2015/02/celebritarian-pathos-curious-case-of.html#vHqFJWPLFPGUKTkd.99

[Tom Sawyer]

http://knappster.blogspot.com/2015/02/celebritarian-pathos-curious-case-of.html

Interesting back and forth in the comments...

Referring to FTL's Cantwell playing the role of "click bait"

Jim Jesus said to Thomas L. Knapp • 6 hours ago

That's what he says he does on Free Talk Live.

Thomas L. Knapp

... I see New Hampshire Underground is talking about it, and so forth.

justintempler to Thomas L. Knapp • 2 hours ago

Yes Chris makes great click bait, I had never heard of MK Lords before her post that triggered Cantwell, which he then made even worse when he felt the need to lie, block, and delete.

I liked MK Lords blog and will be back for more.

Funny thing is FTL's "Not a monster" Cantwell apparently took down his YouTube video from MK Lords call in on Free Talk Live. He had gone to the trouble of beeping out here name so as to not allow her to get the benefit, because hey that's the not so funny comedians schtick.   

[dalebert]

Dalebert left Keene because of Dalebert.

I physically left Keene quite some time ago but I didn't withdraw moral support from Free Keene until fairly recently. I believe the latter is the leaving that folks are referring to.

[Russell Kanning]

oh man I don't even know what game of thrones is ...... so what is my bias now?

I mostly agree with you Kneth and I completely agree with my buddies Dale, Tom, KB, Solar Powered Bob, and such.

[Russell Kanning]

Thanks for all of your concern about what's happening here.  I'd like to remind you that you are not actively involved in the community here and are merely passing judgement without experience beyond what limited information you receive from the outside-looking-in.

We've got this handled.  Please return to more productive matters.

were you talking to Kneth there?
Is it possible some activism is happening in Keene, and you don't know about it?

One of my goals as an activist was to change people's minds about how they should behave and how they view the government.
To me it was very important how outsiders where viewing us and our behavior.

When you say you have it handled .... does that mean that we are viewing things wrong or that you are happy with how your activism is being viewed?

I obviously don't know most of what is going on. But I am interested, since so many people involved are my friends.

[Russell Kanning]

btw I love the things I have found so far on the Attack the State site.
I also am loving that funny article about Celebritarians.

[FTL_Ian]

Thanks for all of your concern about what's happening here.  I'd like to remind you that you are not actively involved in the community here and are merely passing judgement without experience beyond what limited information you receive from the outside-looking-in.

We've got this handled.  Please return to more productive matters.

were you talking to Kneth there?
Is it possible some activism is happening in Keene, and you don't know about it?

One of my goals as an activist was to change people's minds about how they should behave and how they view the government.
To me it was very important how outsiders where viewing us and our behavior.

When you say you have it handled .... does that mean that we are viewing things wrong or that you are happy with how your activism is being viewed?

I obviously don't know most of what is going on. But I am interested, since so many people involved are my friends.

No, the comments were for those who have advice for a community of which they have to not be a part.  We don't discern enough, exclude enough, etc etc.  I'm tired of it.  I don't require perfection of my friends and associates, but if they do something that's wrong, I'm happy to hash it out with the parties involved. 

The issue with Dale and JP did not get mediated because Dale was not interested in it.  JP had said he was willing to mediate.  Obviously Dale is not obligated to mediate and has no real reason to do so, as he does not live in the community here.

There are some issues with JP and Cantwell.  Despite the critics, the community here continues to attract new movers and we have a good community of folks here, who don't all get along, and that's OK.

[FTL_Ian]

Jason Talley withdrew being a blogger at Freekeene because of Ian's support of FTL's Cantwell.

Talley also re-joined the Free Keene blog later.  Guess he got over it.  Note, Cantwell is not a blogger at Free Keene, and has not been invited to be.

FTLs Cantwell expressed it was his goal to run off Garret and people like him, meaning peaceful, left leaning libertarians. Ian said that the "edgy one" had brought in a larger following than he had seen in a long time, thus Ian supported him. Ironcally one of the people at least, Josie Wales, is now publicly condemning FTLs Cantwell.

Cantwell did not run off Garret.  Garret left the community because he was no longer allowed to stay at the KAC due to a change in policy.  He also did not like that JP was approved for membership.  (Cantwell was rejected, by the way.)

One of the goals is to reach new audiences, such as the Men's Rights movement. The problem lays in if angry rhetoric is used to aggitate people that already have a grudge, ugly behavior is the likely result.

Whose goals?  Not mine.   Cantwell is on FTL because he's got a great sense of humor and is good on the radio.  We are doing a show, and the more entertaining, the better.  Amazingly, we lost zero AMPlifiers over the addition of Cantwell, and I expected SOME fallout, but nope!

Ian is right that I am on the outside looking in. And like many others, I have been dissuaded from participating by what I see. Although I have had many conversations with principles directly involved.

It's true - there are many others who have given up on the Keene community because someone came into it that they don't like.  It's certainly within their rights to walk away without trying to make it better from the inside, and within their rights to complain about it forever after.  For the rest of us doing our best to make this work, it's not helping.

Some people are forgiving and understanding of faults, others not.  Nothing new here. 

[FTL_Ian]

Many people have had some negative experience with someone and have never returned to the KAC as a result, rather than asking to mediate and working towards solving whatever the issues are.

Not really a surprise in a movement with people who have poor skills relating with other people.

[Tom Sawyer]

Ian you should run for office, oh wait you did. I concede, you have an answer for everything. Prevaricating and obfuscation are the reasons I jumped you in this thread. You're doing it less. Is not lying the same as telling the truth?

Of course wearing all those hats means people should recognize the conflicts of interest. Oh wait some do, and call you on it. In fact more do all the time.

I was told recently that it was just entertainment, thanks for confirming that. I mean everyone gets to play a role. I am merely playing one here as well. I just wonder if you'll be able to control the brown shirt. I can't educate how to judge character. Watch as Mark reins FTL's Cantwell in and Ian appears to forget their own tagline is "Talk Radio You Control" Dear Caller: You Lose

I started off expressing my dismay that ya'll were hanging with the guy that killed Bin Laden. I could say that you sent a known liar to a friend, but I shouldn't because hey it's all about forgivmess.  I guess we'll have to wait to see what other nuts fall out of the tree of liberty.

[dalebert]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbZIFZm204E

[Russell Kanning]

No, the comments were for those who have advice for a community of which they have to not be a part.  We don't discern enough, exclude enough, etc etc.  I'm tired of it.  I don't require perfection of my friends and associates, but if they do something that's wrong, I'm happy to hash it out with the parties involved. 

gotcha

[FTL_Ian]

Tom, what do you mean I sent a known liar to a friend?  Dale publicly advertised his house was available for rent.  I knew that JP is a clean tenant and had not at that time heard any issues with him owing people money.  (Those have raised their head within the last week or so.)

Can you be very clear on what you think I'm obfuscating/prevaricating?  I'm here to clarify matters, because I respect you guys and appreciate the work you have done.  So, please - let's clear up whatever's muddy.