More lack of discernment in the Keene movement

[Tom Sawyer]

Good article and on the mark.

Agent provocateur or fool, doesn't matter... can have the same result.

[FTL_Ian]

Lieutenant Commander is the insignia on his collar. Navy SEAL is the Trident on his chest, lots of ribbons which represent medals awarded...

He claimed it was some other guy according to you. I posted his picture side by side to the fraudulent SEAL photo so people could determine if it is the same guy. I posted the video to show that he was in Columbus Ohio where the person who made the claim lives.
In the post I linked to the guy saying he claimed to be all that and an Annapolis graduate. 

So lie upon lie and continued to lie about it.

I leave it to others to determine if you are purposely being thick or perhaps worse.

To clarify - I never said the pictured person wasn't JP.  I said that he claimed they'd confused him with another Matthew Phillips.  His comments were in relation to the claims being made, not the pic they showed.

Interesting info about the pins.  Thanks. 

[FTL_Ian]

I am confronting him about this on the Keeniacs group on FB.

[FTL_Ian]

I was told this:

"There is no list . This list is fake. They get Seals names from articles and interviews . Under the homeland security act any name involved in secretive operations is Director clearance only"

Boiling down a long conversation, his claim appears to be that he graduated from BUDs (SEAL training) but never served as a SEAL.  The claim is he was involved in secret stuff that resulted in his records being sealed and him getting a check from the feds as a result.

At this point, that's good enough for me, because I don't really care what he did in the past.  Today he's a good guy who is a good activist, but I do take his claims with a grain or two of salt.  I'm done with the digging into his past, because ultimately it doesn't really matter today.

[FTL_Ian]

Anyone who would like to judge JP should just go ahead and meet him in real life.  He is currently living across the street from the KAC. 

I don't know what the truth about him is, but I sure don't believe SFK's claims, and I have no way of verifying his story.

[KBCraig]

I was told this:

"There is no list . This list is fake. They get Seals names from articles and interviews . Under the homeland security act any name involved in secretive operations is Director clearance only"

Boiling down a long conversation, his claim appears to be that he graduated from BUDs (SEAL training) but never served as a SEAL.  The claim is he was involved in secret stuff that resulted in his records being sealed and him getting a check from the feds as a result.

Short version: "If I told you, I'd have to kill you."

Or as the old saying goes: "If I know the answer but it's classified, I'll say 'I don't know.' If I don't know the answer, I'll say, 'It's classified.'"

JP might very well be a good guy doing good things and righteous activism, today. But not very long ago, he was a liar fraudulently parading himself about as something he wasn't. By your own version, he claims to have graduated BUDS but never earned the SEAL trident. And yet he has been caught in public wearing SEAL insignia.

You might be a better person than me for being so quick to forgive. I forgive easily, but I don't always forget.

[Tom Sawyer]

It's harder to get into the Naval Academy than Harvard. Jp can barely spell.

Lt Cmdr is an officer that can be responsible for 100 or more lives. A lot of hurdles to overcome and scrutiny to get to that position of responsibility.

Jp's answers are exactly the BS that the people that out these imposters say they use. Of course the secret mission you went on is secret but not the fact that you are a Naval Academy Graduate or an Officer. 

The issue isn't Jp or Lumpy or Jesse or Cantwell it's the fact that you promote them as activists of note. The less savvy follow your lead and let these idiots into their lives.

The lack of judgment is appalling.

Activism 101 says if they come into the group promoting violence that you have to assume they are a plant. Even if they aren't they will "draw fire", discredit, and divide the group. as has already been proven. You think the feds stopped trying to crawl up ya'll asses after Rich Paul failed. I have to say that they are completely within their mission statement when people promote killing cops.

I didn't call you out on this thread you did that yourself.

You obfuscated, spun and wiggled your way around. Even knowing that this clown was a liar you invited my wife and child into the potential danger. I have been reminded that the people you promote are, often, not to be trusted.

You have come to enjoy thinking you are so clever that people can't catch on to your techniques. How many have left in frustration... real activists of note.

StopFreeKeene are repugnant, but covering up is the sin here. Copblock needs to clean house as well, this shit is likely to blow back on many.

If not this cast of characters, some future fool will roll into town and everyone even casually connected can be at jeopardy to be dragged into a grand jury and compelled to testify. A shit storm that will cause incredible damage.

[K neth]

As an aspiring monk I avoid judging, reviling, going about being curious, and examing the business of others.  For the last couple weeks this thread has been a terrible challenge full of temptations.  Now  I'm wading in, perhaps foolishly, and will try to serve God, commenting with love, and avoiding temptations.

Having multiple identities, often means history.

Tom, ...

Is your name really "Tom Sawyer"?!  I've always assumed it was not. :O)

Tom, I don't believe we've met, but I've come to respect you from reading your posts here, and looking forward to meeting you some day.

Earlier in this thread I almost posted to get you to define "the Keene movement".  For a few weeks in the summer of 2013, the KAC was my base of operations for a performance art series.  At the time, many of the freedom activists in Keene had "discerned" that the KAC was not somewhere they wanted to hang out. For some, a pubic hair smoking incident was especially beyond the pale.  Others, had a whole catalogues of reasons for shunning the place. 

I was there when JP made his first visit.  He showed up in uniform with another fellow also in uniform.  Word quickly got out that uniforms were at the KAC, and in minutes there were scores of people showing up.  Many times the number that had ever visited since I had been there.  Now I generally discern that anyone in uniform is someone to be wary of, and didn't approach anywhere near either of them.  So I had to wonder, am I part of the Keene movement?  What about the Keene activists who generally refused to have anything to do with the KAC, but came running out that night?  And how about the Keene activists who despise anything to do with FreeKeene or the Shire Free Church?

But it became apparent to me that you weren't really criticizing "the Keene movement."

My goal isn't to whip you, you do a whole lot and have a wide reaching voice. That's why I didn't name specific individuals, it's flawed logic that is at the heart of the problem.

The issue isn't Jp or Lumpy or Jesse or Cantwell it's the fact that you promote them as activists of note. The less savvy follow your lead and let these idiots into their lives.

You seem to have used the word "movement" to avoid the unpleasantness of specifically attacking Ian.  It's good to get past that obfuscation to the real point.  Correct me if I'm wrong: you believe Ian has hurt the freedom movement by promoting the likes of JP and Cantwell on The Free Keene Blog, on Free Talk Live, and at Keenevention; you fear this is a pattern, and that Ian or others might bring still greater harm to the freedom movement by not being more careful who they associate with.

Maybe so, maybe not.  I appreciate you expressing your concerns.  Ian's responses seem sound.  I'm not nearly clear sighted enough to say where to draw what lines here, but being vigilant and watching out for each other seems good. 

To that end, about JP:  JP and a bunch of us were in Central Square one night.  Later I learned that while we were there, JP had called 911 on the UPS guy whose truck was idling on the circle, partially blocking a lane.  To my mind, that's a bad thing.  The next time I saw him, I was sitting in the KAC with a handful of others when he came in.  I brought it up and told him I believed calling 911 on the UPS guy was a bad thing to do.

They will keep denying long past the point most people will be embarrassed and admit they've been caught. In fact they often go on the offensive.

When cornered the pathological liar can sometimes turn and go on the offensive.

JP angrily lashed out at me saying that if I had a problem to talk to him about it and not to talking behind his back.  This seemed strange, as I was then talking to him about it and had avoided talking behind his back.  When I pointed this out he calmed right down and made his case defending the call.  I made it clear to him that I was unconvinced, still thought the 911 call was a bad thing to do, and that I would have to be wary of him.

Some days later JP and I were alone together on the KAC front porch.  As a teenager, I had foolishly wanted more than anything to be part of a nuclear submarine crew, part of the most badass machine ever made.  As such I got an appointment to Annapolis, which bad eyesight barely saved me from, leaving me wondering what my life would have become if my eyes had been better or I'd gone to a freer country where I could get the new lazer eye surgery not yet allowed in the USA.

So I asked JP what it was like at Annapolis.  He didn't seem to want to talk about it.  I asked him how he got his appointment.  I was a top student and an athlete, but it was selling lots of tickets to various political fund raising dinners and cleaining mountains of dishes afterward that got me an appointment from Barber Conable.  JP didn't have a story about how he got his appointment and quickly changed the subject.  Not going about being curious, I didn't give that another thought until reading the opening post on this thread.

That being said, there were maybe a dozen other times JP was among the crowd I was with.  I was glad to have him there, and I would welcome his company still, even if he told tales about Babe his blue ox.

Tom, if you find any evidence disputing JP's claims about himself, please share, but so far all I've seen are internet posts from people neither you or I know.  Why should I discern that Don Shipley is a trustworthy and careful researcher?    He looks like someone I would want to avoid.  o_O



 

[K neth]

JP might very well be a good guy doing good things and righteous activism, today. But not very long ago...

This is hilarious. 

KBCraig, when I first started lurking here you deceived me, though probably not intentionally.  Around here KB means "Kind Bud."  'KBCraig' I figured must be a cannabis connoisseur named Craig. 

What a horror it was learning that you were standing guard over my peaceful neighbors, political prisoners in the horrible war on cannabis combusters.  Where was the discernment on the part of he NH Underground movement promoting such an aggressor and KB pretender as a decent underground member.  I might have followed their lead and let you into my life.

Kevin, do you know that a lot of people in the freedom movement want prison guards to be hunted down and punished like Nazi concentration camp guards have been, and they won't consider the imperial war on peaceful people to be over and justice to be done until you are punished.  Many libertarian people when discerning whose not virtuous enough for our great freedom movement would put the likes of KBCraig near the top of the list.

Now I don't even know you, am not qualified to judge you, and don't revile you.  For all I know you were working from the inside, risking your freedom and comfort to help many of my wrongly incarcerated brothers escape from your dungeons.  Some people that I know and have great respect for seem well disposed to you, but I'm still much more wary of you than of JP.  How ridiculous you look up there on your high horse.

[FTL_Ian]

The issue isn't Jp or Lumpy or Jesse or Cantwell it's the fact that you promote them as activists of note. The less savvy follow your lead and let these idiots into their lives.

The lack of judgment is appalling.

Tom,

Everyone I know in Keene is well aware that JP tells stories that are unverifiable.  No one's been duped into trusting people here because I report on activist news on the blog or because I do activism with people.

What you appear to be saying is that I have followers who believe that because I've had someone who is a doer on Free Talk Live, been seen with the person doing activism, or have blogged about something they've done, that I'm somehow giving them my endorsement and they should trust that person.  If you think I have followers who hang on my every word, you don't really understand the situation. 

Activists are humans and are imperfect.  These imperfect people are doing things in Keene.  I report on them.  I don't say give them your life savings or access to your email accounts.  If someone decides to trust someone because I wrote a news story about their activism, that's THEIR problem.  Sometimes I report on people I've never met or barely know.  Does that mean anyone should trust them, too?

Activism 101 says if they come into the group promoting violence that you have to assume they are a plant. Even if they aren't they will "draw fire", discredit, and divide the group. as has already been proven. You think the feds stopped trying to crawl up ya'll asses after Rich Paul failed. I have to say that they are completely within their mission statement when people promote killing cops.

What makes you think I think feds aren't around?  I don't care who the fed is.  I'm not plotting violence.  I figure there's always feds around.

I didn't call you out on this thread you did that yourself.

You obfuscated, spun and wiggled your way around. Even knowing that this clown was a liar you invited my wife and child into the potential danger. I have been reminded that the people you promote are, often, not to be trusted.

When did I invite your family into danger?  I don't recall inviting them anywhere as of late.  What is the danger, that JP is going to tell them a whopper of a story during a Social Sunday?

You have come to enjoy thinking you are so clever that people can't catch on to your techniques. How many have left in frustration... real activists of note.

Brother, you seem really jaded.  I've never been anything but respectful to you and appreciative of your work.  Frankly, you're disconnected from what happens around here and you don't know how the community handles issues with personalities.  I appreciate your concern, but you're not in possession of the facts.  I don't know what techniques you're talking about.

I appreciate people who do good activism.  I report on those people.  Some of them I'll work with on activism.  I don't agree with everyone who does activism's viewpoints and my reporting on them or working with them doesn't require that I agree with them 100%.  I've heard this "quality over quantity" complaint many times, and I'm not going on some kind of activist purity purge because some people just can't get along.

StopFreeKeene are repugnant, but covering up is the sin here. Copblock needs to clean house as well, this shit is likely to blow back on many.

If not this cast of characters, some future fool will roll into town and everyone even casually connected can be at jeopardy to be dragged into a grand jury and compelled to testify. A shit storm that will cause incredible damage.

There's a lot of shit that can happen, but there's really no point in worrying.   Just do the right thing.

Please stop playing into the BS narrative that I'm somehow in charge around here.  I'm in charge of no one except myself.  JP and Chris Cantwell do not blog for Free Keene - I'm in charge of that.  However, because I'm friendly with them, as I am with nearly everyone, I get shit from those who want some kind of purity purge.  Sounds to me like those folks demanding the purge are the ones dividing "the movement".   

[FTL_Ian]

Don't forget that Mark, my co-host on Free Talk Live spent nine years in prison for MURDER a couple decades back.  Maybe the purity purge should start with him?  People might trust him with his innocent-looking wife, kid, dog and cat, and let him into their lives because he co-hosts Free Talk Live with me six nights per week.  Clearly, I'm ruining the movement by associating with this character of ill-repute.  Plus, anyone who gets close to him is risking being murdered.  How irresponsible!  What was I thinking!?!!?

I'd like to apologize to "the movement".  I've been a terrible charismatic leader and am officially resigning from being in charge.  I'll be shutting down FTL, LRN, FK, and all my other projects before I can do any more damage with my terrible judgement.

[Mark_FTL]

It's harder to get into the Naval Academy than Harvard. Jp can barely spell.

LOL

[Jay]

Must be that time of year when it's cold and dark out and people get a little depressed and start blaming what they think is a logical cause for some problem they are involved in.

[Jay]

It's harder to get into the Naval Academy than Harvard. Jp can barely spell.

LOL

JP says he suffered a brain injury in Iraq, sounds like a good excuse to me for grammar issues. (truthful or not)

[ChrisLawfulman]

From my experience, libertarians are much more free thinking than the average person. To think Ian is doing something wrong for talking with and publishing the acts of questionable people, as if libertarians are going to latch on to Ian's words like sheeple do MSM, is funny.

I assume those reading this thread do not generalize all libertarian minded people in Keene, which I am one of, to the handful of sociopaths that find themselves a lot of attention.