More lack of discernment in the Keene movement

[Jim Johnson]

People should do some self examination, 'cause whatever's happen'n here ain't about JP.

[Becky Thatcher]

Everyone I know in Keene is well aware that JP tells stories that are unverifiable.

I think this is the crux of the biscuit right here and the lack of discernment that Tom was talking about.  I don't put my trust in or turn my back on liars because they lie.  And if a friend of mine knows someone is a big fat liar, I would appreciate it if they would give me a heads up so I can act accordingly.  Same thing with assholes.  Life is too short to waste it in the company of liars and assholes.

[FTL_Ian]

Becky, if you spent any amount of time in Keene with the activist community, you'd have heard plenty about his stories.   People talk quite a bit here.

[FTL_Ian]

In short, there's plenty of discerning going on, but there is also forgiveness and the willingness to work with people who aren't perfect.  I'm grateful to be in such a community.

[KBCraig]

JP might very well be a good guy doing good things and righteous activism, today. But not very long ago...

This is hilarious. 

KBCraig, when I first started lurking here you deceived me, though probably not intentionally.  Around here KB means "Kind Bud."  'KBCraig' I figured must be a cannabis connoisseur named Craig. 

What a horror it was learning that you were standing guard over my peaceful neighbors, political prisoners in the horrible war on cannabis combusters.  Where was the discernment on the part of he NH Underground movement promoting such an aggressor and KB pretender as a decent underground member.  I might have followed their lead and let you into my life.

Long before you first posted here, I was quite open about both my employment, my mixed feelings about it, and my outright opposition to the war on drugs and almost every other category of federal "crime" that keeps prisons filled. When I first met Ron Paul, I told him that I hoped he would eliminate my job. And when he saw that I was serious, he threw back his head, laughed, and pumped my hand.

A late, and great, friend from this forum once told someone, "Yeah, but he's our fed!"  I only learned this well after his untimely death, and I had to smile. You see, people who judged me by my actions, including some actions in favor of the liberty movement that put my job at risk, used their discernment to learn to trust me.

That's not quite the same as someone who has made repeated dishonest claims or representations, not come clean about his past claims, and even in the recent past has called the police on someone like the UPS driver you told us about.

Kevin, do you know that a lot of people in the freedom movement want prison guards to be hunted down and punished like Nazi concentration camp guards have been, and they won't consider the imperial war on peaceful people to be over and justice to be done until you are punished.  Many libertarian people when discerning whose not virtuous enough for our great freedom movement would put the likes of KBCraig near the top of the list.

Fortunately for me, even if I hadn't already left that line of work and moved into honest work in the private sector, that "lot of people" seem to be represented by blowhards like Cantwell.

For anyone determined to hunt me down and punish me for my past, I'm not hard to find. Some of the best and brightest anarchists have brightened my living room, in times of joy and times of sorrow, but always in true friendship.

There's a risk in that, of course.

[KBCraig]

In short, there's plenty of discerning going on, but there is also forgiveness and the willingness to work with people who aren't perfect.  I'm grateful to be in such a community.

I also believe in the power of forgiveness, because forgiveness is to let the agrieved heal. Forgiveness when there is no repentance, if one pretends the offense never happened, is just begging for it to be repeated.

[Russell Kanning]

I couldn't disagree with Cantwell more on the topic of violence, but it's important to not ignore the viewpoint, if for no other reason than to use it as a foil to promote peace.  Cantwell's view is fairly common within the movement - I used to hold it until I was positively influenced by people like Russell.  I want to model peace to Cantwell, and by proxy, his followers.  Maybe I'll never be successful converting him, but his fans listening to FTL (he now hosts with us on Wednesdays) cannot be a bad thing.

I really don't get some of these ideas.
What do you have in common with Cantwell?
Why not have other jerks on your show?
Maybe I am just missing something.

[Russell Kanning]

So the number of views or any metric of audience size trumps everything else. Thanks for acknowledging it.
Maybe Chris could hit you across the back with a chair when the referee isn't looking, that should whip up the crowd. 

That is funny.
I like attracting an audience, but some ways of doing it can be wrong.

[Russell Kanning]

Thanks for the input from some guys in Keene, especially k neth  or whatever your handle was. :-)
If you guys are handling these kinds of issues in house pretty well, maybe you can think of a way to better present yourselves to outsiders.

BTW back when KBcraig was working for the feds, I had to hassle him once a week, so for most oif the history of this underground I hope people should have known our position.

I guess that is an example of how it is good to help onlookers know what you are thinking.

[ChrisLawfulman]

In short, there's plenty of discerning going on, but there is also forgiveness and the willingness to work with people who aren't perfect.  I'm grateful to be in such a community.

I too enjoy forgiveness and the willingness to work with people who aren't perfect, which is definitely an awesome aspect of the community. However, I also see where KBCraig is coming from when he says "Forgiveness when there is no repentance, if one pretends the offense never happened, is just begging for it to be repeated."

[Jay]

However, I also see where KBCraig is coming from when he says "Forgiveness when there is no repentance, if one pretends the offense never happened, is just begging for it to be repeated."

Yeah, have to agree with that as well.

[Tom Sawyer]

People should do some self examination, 'cause whatever's happen'n here ain't about JP.

Very diplomatic and good point.

I started this thread not naming anyone in particular other than the person that was continuing their bad behavior.
You asked for reference material on the subject.

I used a question mark at the end of the first sentence  at the beginning of the thread because I wasn't 100% sure if it was true. Then instead of clarity Ian muddied things and made me wonder if I had wrongly accused someone. Upon further investigation I found out the BS story was still being spread by JP or whatever name he choses. Then Ian went into a "that depends on what the definition of is is" defense. 

Treating the audience as if they are rubes is particularly annoying. Neither "heroic" or "epic". 

[Tom Sawyer]

As an aspiring monk I avoid judging, reviling, going about being curious, and examing the business of others.  For the last couple weeks this thread has been a terrible challenge full of temptations.  Now  I'm wading in, perhaps foolishly, and will try to serve God, commenting with love, and avoiding temptations.

Having multiple identities, often means history.

Tom, ...

Is your name really "Tom Sawyer"?!  I've always assumed it was not. :O)

Tom, I don't believe we've met, but I've come to respect you from reading your posts here, and looking forward to meeting you some day.

Perhaps I can try and trick you into painting a fence.  Of course a reference to the book.

Thanks for taking the time to share your observations. You were pretty much on the mark  about my motivations etc.

Some of what I posted would be considered circumstantial evidence but it all adds up to what many people from different places were saying the same things.

I too was offered at least a preliminary opportunity to go to Annapolis in Boot Camp. They had a program where kids like me that scored well on the testing would go to a one year Prep School before going to the College. I don't think I would have made it through all the screening because I honestly don't think I was really mature enough at 17.

[Tom Sawyer]

Welcome to the underground Chris and Jay, I am obviously the Diplomatic Liaison for the forum.   

Joking aside I have met some great folks here.

Jim Johnson, has been an invaluable help to me and my family. I can't think of anyone I'd trust more to be on the safety rope protecting me from plummeting to my death. He has stood by me even when I have made it difficult to be my friend.

Russell Kanning was my inspiration to participate with this bunch of principled nuts.

Lauren Canario, William and I went to her rescue because others in the wider FSP weren't going to do it when she sacrificed of herself to bring attention to the travesty of New London Conn.

Kat Kanning who always made us feel welcome and we had fun family stuff to do. Not forgetting her going to jail for what she believed.

The list could go on and on... some of the smartest most principled people I have risk me and families safety for. The nexus of the whole movement.

[FTL_Ian]

In short, there's plenty of discerning going on, but there is also forgiveness and the willingness to work with people who aren't perfect.  I'm grateful to be in such a community.

I too enjoy forgiveness and the willingness to work with people who aren't perfect, which is definitely an awesome aspect of the community. However, I also see where KBCraig is coming from when he says "Forgiveness when there is no repentance, if one pretends the offense never happened, is just begging for it to be repeated."

Well, JP did apologize for upsetting Dale.  He owned up.  Besides that, I've never heard of anyone claiming they've been wronged by JP.