Is it time to stop paying Federal Taxes?

[Russell Kanning]

Which services aren't dictated by the constitution?????   Where to begin?
I'd guess close to 70% of what you pay in local taxes is unnessisary.
State level I'm not that familar enough with to list specifics.
As for national, well there we could go on and on and on for days listing the wasteful spending they partake in daily.

I agree with you.
So is it time to stop paying for the spending?
Maybe you could hand them a tax bill with 30% on it.

[lildog]

Things like senior centers, town run trash facilities, town run recreational events, historicial preservation committees...

As for national, well there we could go on and on and on for days listing the wasteful spending they partake in daily.  Buying condoms from China to give out free in Africa for instance.  Or buying ads on TV to warn kids not to do drugs.  Or how about the entire FCC department of the government?

US Constitution

Section. 8.

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

The American Heritage? Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition

wel?fare   Pronunciation Key  (wlf?r) n.
   1.
         1. Health, happiness, and good fortune; well-being.
         2. Prosperity.
   2. Welfare work.
   3.
         1. Financial or other aid provided, especially by the government, to people in need.
         2. Corporate welfare.

Idiom:
on welfare

    Receiving regular assistance from the government or private agencies because of need.

It looks like our constitution states that our government has the power to collect taxes to provide for our health, happiness, and good fortune.

So, lets see. I need to have my trash picked up so that it doesn't pile up in my back yard and make me unhappy.

Senior citizens need to be stimulated so that they don't get bored and become unhappy.

Recreational events are a catch all to make people happy who like to participate in those types of activities.

Historicial preservation committees keep the historians happy.

Since the government must provide for health they cannot allow children to destroy their bodies with drugs. Thus drugs are illegal.

Condoms in China are more than likely covered by one of the other clauses in the constitution. I'm sure if you took the time you can justify just about anything the government does by looking in the constitution.

Enjoy!

"With respect to the words general welfare, I have always regarded them as qualified by the detail of powers connected with them. To take them in a literal and unlimited sense would be a metamorphosis of the Constitution into a character which there is a host of proofs was not contemplated by its creators." - James Madison, Letter to James Robertson, April 20, 1831 _Madison_ 1865, IV, pages 171-172

"Congress has not unlimited powers to provide for the general welfare, but only those specifically enumerated." - Thomas Jefferson

[lildog]

Which services aren't dictated by the constitution?????   Where to begin?
I'd guess close to 70% of what you pay in local taxes is unnessisary.
State level I'm not that familar enough with to list specifics.
As for national, well there we could go on and on and on for days listing the wasteful spending they partake in daily.

I agree with you.
So is it time to stop paying for the spending?
Maybe you could hand them a tax bill with 30% on it.

All that will accomplish is them arresting you, taking everything you own and raising the money by taking more from everyone else.

The government needs to be changed to stop taking the money in the first place from everyone.

[Lex]

"With respect to the words general welfare, I have always regarded them as qualified by the detail of powers connected with them. To take them in a literal and unlimited sense would be a metamorphosis of the Constitution into a character which there is a host of proofs was not contemplated by its creators." - James Madison, Letter to James Robertson, April 20, 1831 _Madison_ 1865, IV, pages 171-172

"Congress has not unlimited powers to provide for the general welfare, but only those specifically enumerated." - Thomas Jefferson

What some dead person said about the constitution 200 years ago and how the constitution is interpreted today have nothing to do with one another.

Besides, what Thomas Jefferson THINKS is in the constitution does not change what is actually written in it.

You can have all sorts of warm and fuzzy feelings about the US Constitution but that doesn't change the fact that it has enslaved us to work in order to support our government.

[Rochelle]

So in the meantime how much money did you send the feds this year?

Entirely too much.

Nah, lemme go look at my W-2s.

Okay, federal taxes removed last year from my paycheck consisted of $441.61 cents. Social Security taxes were 483.38, Medicare $113.07. This makes for a grand total of $1,038.06 that I did not see and have never had. And this on an income that totaled 7796.39, not including money I got back from university scholarships. So they're basically taking away 1/8th of my income.

To a large degree, I don't really mind paying the federal taxes, because i believe the government is responsible for funding some things at the federal level, ie, providing for the national defense and maybe keeping the paint job on the Congress building nice and shiney.

Medicare and social security taxes, however, PISS ME OFF!
I'm 21, and I know that I'm not going to see a penny of that social security money; I've known this since I was 11 years old because that's how long I've been aware that the system is going broke. Yet for some reason, I pay MORE into that system than I pay in federal taxes!

"Ownership society," indeed. Why can't they let me own my bloody retirement? I could get more of a return putting that into a 40-year CD than giving it to the government .

Oh, and if you're curious, state income taxes (in the Great State of Kansas) for me this year, withheld, were: $130.64.

I haven't yet decided if I will file for the state. I have to go pick up the forms and figure out if I'm getting anything back or not. If I am, then hell yea, I'm filing. If I'm not, well, I'm skipping country in March, and then skipping the state in August, so they can have a fun time finding me!

[lildog]

"With respect to the words general welfare, I have always regarded them as qualified by the detail of powers connected with them. To take them in a literal and unlimited sense would be a metamorphosis of the Constitution into a character which there is a host of proofs was not contemplated by its creators." - James Madison, Letter to James Robertson, April 20, 1831 _Madison_ 1865, IV, pages 171-172

"Congress has not unlimited powers to provide for the general welfare, but only those specifically enumerated." - Thomas Jefferson

What some dead person said about the constitution 200 years ago and how the constitution is interpreted today have nothing to do with one another.

Besides, what Thomas Jefferson THINKS is in the constitution does not change what is actually written in it.

You can have all sorts of warm and fuzzy feelings about the US Constitution but that doesn't change the fact that it has enslaved us to work in order to support our government.

Madison and Jefferson are not just some dead persons... they were some of those who helped author it so what they ment when they wrote it is VERY relivent as it explains what their writing means and not what we're trying to view it to mean by today's definitions so we can get the government to support our pet programs with tax funding.

And that's just it... if it was being followed AS INTENDED, we wouldn't be slaved to workin order to support the government.

[Russell Kanning]

So is it time to stop paying for the spending?

All that will accomplish is them arresting you, taking everything you own and raising the money by taking more from everyone else.

So that is one vote for "it is not time yet to stop paying federal taxes".

[Russell Kanning]

So in the meantime how much money did you send the feds this year?

Entirely too much.
Okay, federal taxes removed last year from my paycheck consisted of $441.61 cents. Social Security taxes were 483.38, Medicare $113.07. This makes for a grand total of $1,038.06 that I did not see and have never had. And this on an income that totaled 7796.39, not including money I got back from university scholarships. So they're basically taking away 1/8th of my income.

To a large degree, I don't really mind paying the federal taxes, because i believe the government is responsible for funding some things at the federal level, ie, providing for the national defense and maybe keeping the paint job on the Congress building nice and shiney.

Medicare and social security taxes, however, PISS ME OFF!
I'm 21, and I know that I'm not going to see a penny of that social security money; I've known this since I was 11 years old because that's how long I've been aware that the system is going broke. Yet for some reason, I pay MORE into that system than I pay in federal taxes!

Kansas for me this year, withheld, were: $130.64.

That stinks. It is kinda like servitude.
If it feels any better, all your medicare and ss taxes go into one big pile with your income taxes, then they vote for how much they will spend on these things each year.

If you have some time, check out this timeless essay: http://underground.soulawakenings.com/tiki-index.php?page=Voluntary+Servitude

[Dreepa]

Prez... Russell can teach you how not to pay for the school funding in your town.

[Russell Kanning]

I feel a lot less bitter, now that I am not paying.

[tracysaboe]

For me, I think the time will be when I actually get to New Hampshire. Looking at early 2009.

I know that there will be support networks there to help defend me through passive nonviolent noncooporation, legal defence from w/in the system, and monitarily should the thugs catch up w/ me.

But untill then, I need to follow the rules -- however evil they may be, I want to at least make it to New Hampshire.

Once all my debt gets paid off, my wife and I'll be able to live quite comfortably on $1,000/month which is somewhat below the threshhold that you need to file for anyway.

Looking forward to not paying property taxes though.

I'm actually pretty bitter though. I'm owing over $1,700 to the Federal Maffia this year and they're taking on a penalty for any ammount over $700. Iti comes to about a $35 penalty. It'is rediculous.

They changed the rules on me. Last year, it was anything over $2,000 that they charged a penalty for.

Bush cutting taxes? My Butt! Sure, perhaps some of the marginal rates of gone down, but he's collecting every bit of it back through scams like this.

Rochell, I here you on the SSN and Medicare. The ammount you pay into SNN and Medicare is counted as taxible income. So you have to pay income tax on it even though it's confiscated from you and you know you're never going to see a penny of it.  And even if you DO  see a penny of it, you half to pay income tax on it again!

It's really outrageous.

Tracy

[Russell Kanning]

It is good to hear you will not be paying fed income taxes when you move here. Will you still be paying ss/med?
Just because there is some support here doesn't mean there won't be pain involved if the federalies decide to turn on you.
What is the determining factor for you about whether you should pay or not?

[tracysaboe]

How much relative danger it puts my wife in.

Tracy

[Russell Kanning]

So when will that change?

[tracysaboe]

After I own a house free and clear, and I'm sufficiently self sufficient enough to service the vast majority of our needs off grid.

I'll own a passive solar house which means I won't need to rely on grid gaslines, w/ solar electricity for the basic lights etc. I'll be completely off-grid and self suffifient  -- at least in regards to the fact that I can leave the government franchise monopolies behind.

I have to make sure that if I get thrown in jail for refusing to pay, she doesn't loose her livelyhood, because we know that she has everything she needs.

I also have to minimize the odds of them finding me and maximize the odds that if they do, there will be support networks. 

In NH there will be a whole lot more of that, then their is here. There are already networks of ghosts in NH. And they're only going to get better.

But I first have to get rid of my debt, and get to NH, and get my self sufficient zero-energy house built.

It's a whole lot easier to defend actual property then it is to defend ones and zeros in bank computers.

Tracy