Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory

[KBCraig]

So many of those declaring the FSP "dead" have never even heard of Lauren Canario or Mike Fisher. Most are barely aware of the Kannings, and Dave Ridley is just an anachronistic curiosity to them.

Those who are boycotting PorcFest because "it will never be the same!", have no idea that it wasn't always an orgiastic festival of drugs and sex.

I'm not mad at them, just curious why they're so angry at those of us who .

If Porcfest is "an orgiastic festival of drugs and sex" and you "don't really want to socialize with them" why did you go?

......and your assessment of Porcfest is completely different than anything I've seen there.

One reason I went was to see people I really like and admire but haven't had much chance to socialize with over the years, like some folks named Jim and Lauren. Another was to meet in person for the first time others whom I've only gotten to know through social media.

No, I haven't been there around the clock for every PF, but it seems there are plenty of people who think that PF is supposed to be an "orgiastic festival of drugs and sex", and anyone who disagrees is a statist prude. What happens in the privacy of one's own tent is private, but I've seen a complaint of broad daylight blowjobs in full view of everyone.

I don't even care about toplessness or the "loincloth guy", or even if everyone is nude, but when a major part of the PF mission is showing how NH is a great place to live and raise a family, folks might want to dial that back a notch or two. It's not Burning Man New England.

I bought tickets this year to celebrate reaching the 20k milestone. I still think the pricing plan is all wrong, with no reasonably priced day pass tickets for locals, or those who can only visit for a day or two. Or an hour or two a day, like me (I'll be working, so I'll drop in as I can).

But I do look forward to seeing the Winchester folks again this year, and others. If those who didn't even know the FSP existed three years ago decide to boycott, I won't miss seeing them at all.

Peace.

[Jim Johnson]

So many of those declaring the FSP "dead" have never even heard of Lauren Canario or Mike Fisher. Most are barely aware of the Kannings, and Dave Ridley is just an anachronistic curiosity to them.

Those who are boycotting PorcFest because "it will never be the same!", have no idea that it wasn't always an orgiastic festival of drugs and sex.

I'm not mad at them, just curious why they're so angry at those of us who .

If Porcfest is "an orgiastic festival of drugs and sex" and you "don't really want to socialize with them" why did you go?

......and your assessment of Porcfest is completely different than anything I've seen there.

One reason I went was to see people I really like and admire but haven't had much chance to socialize with over the years, like some folks named Jim and Lauren. Another was to meet in person for the first time others whom I've only gotten to know through social media.

No, I haven't been there around the clock for every PF, but it seems there are plenty of people who think that PF is supposed to be an "orgiastic festival of drugs and sex", and anyone who disagrees is a statist prude. What happens in the privacy of one's own tent is private, but I've seen a complaint of broad daylight blowjobs in full view of everyone.

I don't even care about toplessness or the "loincloth guy", or even if everyone is nude, but when a major part of the PF mission is showing how NH is a great place to live and raise a family, folks might want to dial that back a notch or two. It's not Burning Man New England.

I bought tickets this year to celebrate reaching the 20k milestone. I still think the pricing plan is all wrong, with no reasonably priced day pass tickets for locals, or those who can only visit for a day or two. Or an hour or two a day, like me (I'll be working, so I'll drop in as I can).

But I do look forward to seeing the Winchester folks again this year, and others. If those who didn't even know the FSP existed three years ago decide to boycott, I won't miss seeing them at all.

Peace.

I'm not going to Porcfest.
The real reason hurts, like someone I couldn't do without had died. I have told two people close to me what has happened and no one else cares.... so fuck it, I've wasted 11 years of my life.

I signed on to the Free State Project and was dragged out here early.
No one could no better than the readers of the NHFREE what I've been through or what I have endured with my wife and my friends.

Lauren was so happy when the FSP reached 20,000 that she wanted to have a big party at Porcfest. It's the only time she's wanted to have a party, ever. This was a pinnacle event and I was surprised at how few people showed up. I was having a great time and we went to the Snowden event. But then there was the list of FSP heroes. Now.... I'm nobodies hero, but the list went on to say, "The following is the names of community stalwarts who have brought us to this moment...". I thought of how the FSP could now be a big success and that people would look back in history and see the names of people who pioneered and sacrificed for liberty..... on that list... not Jim Johnson, not Lauren Canario's husband, not even that guy who filmed his wife being hauled away by cops in New London.

Now I feel there are a lot of things I should have done besides come to New Hampshire.
I'm supposed to be a man, which means my feels don't mean shit....  but that Ian thing put a final nail in it.

[Tom Sawyer]

 

[Becky Thatcher]

I'm not going to Porcfest.
The real reason hurts, like someone I couldn't do without had died. I have told two people close to me what has happened and no one else cares.... so fuck it, I've wasted 11 years of my life.

I signed on to the Free State Project and was dragged out here early.
No one could no better than the readers of the NHFREE what I've been through or what I have endured with my wife and my friends.

Lauren was so happy when the FSP reached 20,000 that she wanted to have a big party at Porcfest. It's the only time she's wanted to have a party, ever. This was a pinnacle event and I was surprised at how few people showed up. I was having a great time and we went to the Snowden event. But then there was the list of FSP heroes. Now.... I'm nobodies hero, but the list went on to say, "The following is the names of community stalwarts who have brought us to this moment...". I thought of how the FSP could now be a big success and that people would look back in history and see the names of people who pioneered and sacrificed for liberty..... on that list... not Jim Johnson, not Lauren Canario's husband, not even that guy who filmed his wife being hauled away by cops in New London.

Now I feel there are a lot of things I should have done besides come to New Hampshire.
I'm supposed to be a man, which means my feels don't mean shit....  but that Ian thing put a final nail in it.

For what it's worth, I for one am very happy you came to New Hampshire.  Of all the people not going to PorcFest, seeing your name makes me the saddest.  My family and I consider you to be a very important part of our lives, like family...but family we want to spend time with.   I know others feel the same about you.  People don't name their babies after someone who isn't very important to them.  I think your presence around here has made a lot of peoples lives better...maybe we all need to let you know that more often.



On a different thought, as for Menno's article, I see what he is trying to say.  But personally, I don't want a society filled with individuals focusing only on themselves.  I like the idea of the village, but I want a village composed of people of my choosing (people like Jim Johnson).  And sometimes, living in a village requires you to think of others so as not to be a dick.  I get tired of rudeness and anti-social behaviour being cloaked in the "I'm an individual and you can't tell me what to do."   Maybe I can't tell them what to do, but I sure as shit can decide I don't want to be around them.  My enemy's enemy is my friend is a stupid and dangerous way of looking at life.

This whole clusterfuck over who is going or not going to Porcfest carries a whiff of the Salem witch trials.  Just point a finger and scream "he/she is a Statist" and the whole collective of "self empowered individuals" mindlessly turns and starts firing up the bonfire.  In my personal observation, a lot of the people talking so stridently about individual versus collective are single men with no family ties.  Good for them, but having a husband and child means my needs don't always come first.  Hell, having a cat and dog means my needs don't always come first.  But that's okay.  It's just the normal give and take of healthy relationships with others.

[Free libertarian]

 By the power vested by me in myself - I hereby nominate, vote and affirm Jim Johnson for Hero Status. 

His list of personal accomplishments and helping others is too numerous to mention.    Jim's a little bit older than me and even know it alls like me sometimes need somebody to look up to.  Plus he's taller too, so it's not like I could look down anyway.

  Jim, lots of people love you, I've found you to be one of the most inspiring and helpful guys there is. 

As far as individuals and how we fit into groups etc.   I want people to be able to chose their interactions on a peaceful and voluntary basis.  For some people that will mean doing different things, I'm okay with that.   
   

[Jay]

This whole clusterfuck over who is going or not going to Porcfest carries a whiff of the Salem witch trials.  Just point a finger and scream "he/she is a Statist" and the whole collective of "self empowered individuals" mindlessly turns and starts firing up the bonfire.

The lies people tell themselves...

[Tom Sawyer]

This whole clusterfuck over who is going or not going to Porcfest carries a whiff of the Salem witch trials.  Just point a finger and scream "he/she is a Statist" and the whole collective of "self empowered individuals" mindlessly turns and starts firing up the bonfire.

The lies people tell themselves...

It's possible that the FSP board over-reached and the reaction from many are both wrongheaded.

I see the spin that is being applied by some that have no idea what is going on.

I have no idea if Ian is guilty of downloading kiddie porn. I've had my differences with Ian's approach, but find no joy in his downfall.

[Jay]

It's possible that the FSP board over-reached...

lol

[Tom Sawyer]

It's possible that the FSP board over-reached...

lol

Do you only hear the parts that confirm what you already believe? The possible was referring to both things in that statement can be possible.

Earlier I said I thought that the board over did it with the banning part. The severing of the business relationship was probably enough.

I'm sorry that the thing that brought you to the movement is in peril. I wanted to be free before Ian was born. I got involved before I had even heard of FTL. I moved to this region 20 years ago. I've been calling myself a libertarian since 1978... I was very freedom oriented from as far back as I have a memory.

Is it possible that Ian has caused most of his own troubles?

[Jay]

I've got a real compulsion for spotting bias. Though I may not always be right, sometimes it's glaringly obvious.

Ian did not bring me to the movement, in fact I voted in the FSP state selection thing in 2003.

Just because I can smell bullshit when it's cooking doesn't mean I think he is Jesus 2.0.

"If you ain't with us, you are a kid fucker apologist." Yes, that is the bias and sentiment I see running through those who take a stance on that particular side of things.

The people that are calling out the liars for continuing to sling around their libel are on a witch hunt? Yes, that is pretty damn funny.

[Jay]

"anyone who is able to BAN someone from an experiment in freedom ...is a tyrant, and their experiment is just a new little baby government saying "just the tip""

[Becky Thatcher]

This whole clusterfuck over who is going or not going to Porcfest carries a whiff of the Salem witch trials.  Just point a finger and scream "he/she is a Statist" and the whole collective of "self empowered individuals" mindlessly turns and starts firing up the bonfire.

The lies people tell themselves...

So now you're calling someone you've never met and know nothing about a liar.  Great way to make friends and build a civil society.

[Jay]

This whole clusterfuck over who is going or not going to Porcfest carries a whiff of the Salem witch trials.  Just point a finger and scream "he/she is a Statist" and the whole collective of "self empowered individuals" mindlessly turns and starts firing up the bonfire.

The lies people tell themselves...

So now you're calling someone you've never met and know nothing about a liar.  Great way to make friends and build a civil society.

I am saying you are deluding yourself for calling the side you're referring to in your statement as the one that has the ongoing witch hunt. Way to twist my words, though it appears to be standard procedure lately.

I have no interest in making friends and building a "civil society" with people who dare accuse others of stirring up drama for exposing the liars, so you won't have to worry about me messing up that collective dream of a big metaphorical Puritanical wall keeping the unwashed out.

A lot of people became persona non grata to me within the last few weeks for being on the side of bullshit. And that list keeps expanding.

Funny how all those I've considered actual friends are on the same page, distinctly crestfallen and feeling like a part of them is gone.

[Tom Sawyer]

Sorry for my assumption of your path. I just knew you came to my attention via the FTL BBS.

There are more than two positions someone can take and more than one position can be in error.

The feds can be responsible for doing evil things and Ian could be responsible for downloading the content. Or many other possibilities.

People maybe shouldn't running around stirring the pot publicly... i.e. in places new participants will perhaps be exposed to the dirty laundry. I mean before any real info was really available people were screaming that the FSP board turned them in. Are those people now apologizing for their jumping the gun?

I haven't been involved in the Facebook drama. The purpose of this thread was to give people a chance to air their thoughts and the title was meant to remind people that we could choose not to destroy all the good that has and will come about from this movement.

[Russell Kanning]

I am sorry you are so sad about the FSP Jim.
On the brighter side, they have not thrown you under the bus this week like they did when Lauren was in jail.
I think those guys will always do crazy stuff.
Maybe that list is just missing all sorts of people.
Since you have been able to stay there Jim, you have done more than I have. But then I probably didn't make the list .... heck I was almost kicked out of the whole organization once (well at least once).
I once was part of all the conversations the FSP board has .... there is so much wordsmithing and handwringing, that it is easy for them to make mistakes.