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Author Topic: NHexit.com discussion  (Read 11845 times)

andy1337

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Re: NHexit.com discussion
« Reply #135 on: July 26, 2016, 08:58 PM NHFT »

ok good insights andy:  Do you have a sense what *you* think the primary pithy talking point might to be, which everyone in the movement knows? how about the rest of you?

My reason for wanting NHexit is because I'm always and everywhere in favour of secession, and power moving closer to the individual. I'd be interested in hearing what everyone else's reasons are, because those can also go towards making a case.

As for what the eventual talking points should be, the Brexiteers were a little bit dishonest here, because we basically did some polling as to what the top five motivating factors for voters were, and then positioned ourselves as the answer to all of those. It turned out the top one was the NHS (Britain's socialist healthcare system) so Arron Banks made this completely ridiculous video and paid to have it broadcast on mainstream UK television over and over:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIYq5xMW98I

I always thought that video was way over the top and not really backed up by any evidence, but Arron reckons it won an extra 2 million votes, which, if true, would mean it was the difference between winning and losing.

Politics is a pretty dirty business, but any winning campaign tends to figure out what most people want and then say they are that thing. I'm not in NH so I don't know what people want, but whatever it is, I'd try to find a way to claim that NHexit is the answer.
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andy1337

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Re: NHexit.com discussion
« Reply #136 on: July 26, 2016, 09:23 PM NHFT »

How many of you guys want to start making a new government to get the ball rolling?
Also is this something that can happen inside the NHexit movement or is that about getting a vote inside the current government?
Are you talking about a "Plausible alternative government"- ie, a bunch of people within and without the current NHexit that could conceivably run whatever bits of the apparatus of state would be left after NHexit - much like an opposition party would generally form,
Or is this something you're thinking of actually implementing inside the current system (seems like a bad idea to me)
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Russell Kanning

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Re: NHexit.com discussion
« Reply #137 on: July 26, 2016, 09:25 PM NHFT »

I'm generally not in favor of creating more government. It'll just end up being another layer of control between people and whatever level of government is currently rubbing against them.
I am not quite sure what you are referring to .... is the NHexit idea or my love of starting a new country ... or something else?
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Russell Kanning

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Re: NHexit.com discussion
« Reply #138 on: July 26, 2016, 09:29 PM NHFT »

Are you talking about a "Plausible alternative government"- ie, a bunch of people within and without the current NHexit that could conceivably run whatever bits of the apparatus of state would be left after NHexit

yea ... and starting it now
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Russell Kanning

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Re: NHexit.com discussion
« Reply #139 on: July 26, 2016, 09:32 PM NHFT »

So Dave ... what do you think of andy's idea of finding out what they want and aligning nhexit with those?
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andy1337

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Re: NHexit.com discussion
« Reply #140 on: July 26, 2016, 09:35 PM NHFT »

Are you talking about a "Plausible alternative government"- ie, a bunch of people within and without the current NHexit that could conceivably run whatever bits of the apparatus of state would be left after NHexit

yea ... and starting it now

Ok. I think we need a Skype conference, or something like that, at some point fairly soon.
I've got a feeling that there are many good points being made but that we're talking past each other on strategy. We need to have a substantial multi-way discussion about what's actually going to happen next.
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Russell Kanning

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Re: NHexit.com discussion
« Reply #141 on: July 26, 2016, 10:37 PM NHFT »

good idea
I might not be able to join, but maybe most of the guys could :)
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Free libertarian

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Re: NHexit.com discussion
« Reply #142 on: July 27, 2016, 09:19 PM NHFT »

The problem of self ownership which most of us here know is the logical end of secession is it is exacerbated by some people looking to the next paradigm trying to talk to people stuck in the present paradigm.  There is literally a language barrier.

 For instance concepts like Panarchy are so foreign to people that they haven't even started to ridicule it yet.
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Free libertarian

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Re: NHexit.com discussion
« Reply #143 on: July 27, 2016, 09:39 PM NHFT »

How many of you guys want to start making a new government to get the ball rolling?
Also is this something that can happen inside the NHexit movement or is that about getting a vote inside the current government?
Are you talking about a "Plausible alternative government"- ie, a bunch of people within and without the current NHexit that could conceivably run whatever bits of the apparatus of state would be left after NHexit - much like an opposition party would generally form,
Or is this something you're thinking of actually implementing inside the current system (seems like a bad idea to me)

  Yes, it seems like a bad idea to recreate the present model.

  Also, thanks for contributing to the conversation.  some of us have been here so long we sometimes horse around with each other which makes it hard for the new people to know when we're being wise asses or doing our sage imitations or sometimes both.
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Dave Ridley

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Re: NHexit.com discussion
« Reply #144 on: July 28, 2016, 04:25 PM NHFT »

Andy I guess we could go on for weeks regarding the advantages of independence but for me two things pop to the top at the moment.

1) I think NH has about 25,000 pages of laws and regulations.  The feds have between 170,000 and 2 million pages, depending on how you count them.   I'd welcome harder and faster numbers, but if the Fed number were just 170,000 then taking them out of the equation would eliminate, at one stroke, over 80 percent of the laws and regulations NH residents must follow.
2) NH folk should not have to follow 170,00+ pages of Federal Law/regulation, and every day NH is in the Union...people are at risk of arrest or something if they violate one of the 169,000 they've never even heard of.   Just ask Belmont gunsmith Jonathon Irish....

There may be better talking points but this is my fast off the cuff one.  Probably something backed by a study about how small nation economies prosper would be better.  Supposedly there are studies out there than indicate americans about about 10 to 100 times as poor as they would be under freedom and a decent new car should cost about 2,000 bucks in today's dollars... in a free U.S. So it should be in a free NH... though we know it wouldn't be completely free. 

Also for those wanting to research what people want... i think if you google WMUR marijuana poll you'll find a recent extenseve polling data on various issues 2016.   Obviously I"m against making unkeepable promises like the Brexiters but I suspect the remainers did it even worse and just aren't getting called on it because Establishment Media.
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Dave Ridley

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Re: NHexit.com discussion
« Reply #145 on: July 28, 2016, 05:11 PM NHFT »

with regard to the idea of a live chat or conference call type thing, I'm in favor of pretty much all peaceable activity.  But I might not directly participate... having someone summarize it for me afterward might be helpful. I'd probably look that over closely and try to take some action.

also andy now that you mention it, having other exit groups call free talk live would be useful , especially if they were to explain that nhexit folk invited them to.   another thing that would be fun is if they posted to one of our discussion groups or you posted to theirs....and thanks andy!
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Russell Kanning

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Re: NHexit.com discussion
« Reply #146 on: July 28, 2016, 05:24 PM NHFT »

How about we start building our "1000 reasons life would be better free of the Feds" on this thread another thread or on the webpage, so we can keep pointing people to it?
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Russell Kanning

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Re: NHexit.com discussion
« Reply #147 on: July 28, 2016, 05:28 PM NHFT »

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Russell Kanning

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Erroneous_Logic

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Re: NHexit.com discussion
« Reply #149 on: July 28, 2016, 06:24 PM NHFT »

On the "making unkeepable promises" issue, rather than spouting off "a free New Hampshire means better healthcare and cheap bla bla", direct it to the fact that -New Hampshire- would be the ones responsible for the management of it's own business, rather than congress and the federal government, with their very horrible track record. Something like:

Quote
"In an independent New Hampshire, we would be the ones who decided how to manage our local healthcare issues, not the uncaring bureaucrats in Washington. They've shown that they're only interested in money and power, so lets show them that we won't be their stepping stool for that goal any longer."

that way, there's none of that 'free pony for every citizen' nonsense, but you still have a message of hope and prosperity.
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